Let me Ask this...

[Futile Rhetoric]

Originally posted by Infinitemadness
I understand why someone would look at this post in this way. Granted, however, how else would someone "take" an item off of the character? It's never been done through the database, so the only way is to login to the account, and leave your footprint. Better known as an ip. So even if I tell the "so called" hacker exactly what I look for, thats like having a sign up, that says, "Speed Trap", and your speeding anyways. Will you be caught? yep. It is unavoidable to login to the character to steal from them. I mean, if that was the case, then why would anyone report they have been hacked and their password changed, or what have you? I would never intentionally disrupt any type of game play, nor displeasure on K2 side knowingly. *Anyhow, thanks for your concern, however, concern it's not. Let me assure you of that. *I was merely trying to get some sort of player side information or ideas as to why people would do this. No one has actually given any ideas to the actual point, but thats ok. But like I said, it's harmless information.

Oh dearie me. You honestly can see no scenario where this could be relevant? Allow me to paint a purty little picture, then:

I'm a Turk. A random, nameless, stupid Turk. I may as well be someone else, but for this excercise, I'll be a Turk. I want some shiny, +8 shards, because my Turk friends laugh at my +7s. It also just so happens to be that I read these forums; my English is not incredibly happy, but I manage to gather enough from this thread anyway. I decide to go to a random, nameless, Turk cyber cafe and log in on my character there (oooh, goody, IP variation); perhaps, just like you, I'm smarter than the average bear, and decide to use a different ISP, or a proxy -- the specifics matter not, what matters is the fact that I've now logged in with a squeaky clean IP that you can't do much with. What do I do next, then? Why, try to upgrade my shards, of course. Oh, snap! My goodness! Henny penny the sky is falling! They broke! Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, log in on all accounts, burn everything I have, or give it out to random denizens of Moradon. And what do we have here? IP variation, I've been on all three characters, cleared them all out, and now I'm ready to report my account as hacked, to get my trusty ol' shards back. Sure, they might be +7, but they're better off at +7 than broken. I'm a random, nameless, stupid Turk, and even I know that.

Far-fetched? Nah. After all, the fake hack reports of people logging in on their own accounts aren't either, are they? You want to know why people are doing this? Why would anyone try to scam customer support? Greed. No, duh. The same reason people like Covetous, Nil8er, and countless others scammed live chat (in much the same way, too) back in the olden timey days. Unfortunately for these new wanna-be scammers, they haven't been exactly blessed with an iota of common sense. Of course, the less they know, the better. It'll make your job easier, and the servers much cleaner. Speed traps? Speeding? You've shown them where the speed traps are, and now they can slow down just in time. Is this a fuckup of epic proportions? No, not really. It's not exactly kosher, either. Feh.

[Infinitemadness]

Ziggy, honestly, I didnt quite understand you at all. I apologize. Read my sig and then re-ask me sir. Im thinking your asking me if I rollback people? Ban for Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Speech, is a phrase that most people from the world say when they have said something wrong. I mean, you cant say, "Bomb" on a plane. Thats freedom of speech right? They will take you down, and remove you from the plane, very quickly. You cant say alot of things in life. K2 doesnt ban people for talking, conversating. They ban people when they shout hack sites. Thats banning of "freedom of speech." Shame on K2.

[Futile Rhetoric]

Originally posted by Infinitemadness
Ziggy, honestly, I didnt quite understand you at all. I apologize. Read my sig and then re-ask me sir. Im thinking your asking me if I rollback people? Ban for Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Speech, is a phrase that most people from the world say when they have said something wrong. I mean, you cant say, "Bomb" on a plane. Thats freedom of speech right? They will take you down, and remove you from the plane, very quickly. You cant say alot of things in life. K2 doesnt ban people for talking, conversating. They ban people when they shout hack sites. Thats banning of "freedom of speech." Shame on K2.

Hell, it's much more simple than that. K2, as a private company, is in no way, shape, or form obliged to uphold anyone's freedom of speech. Simple, no?

[Infinitemadness]

Originally posted by Futile Rhetoric+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Futile Rhetoric)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Infinitemadness

I understand why someone would look at this post in this way. Granted, however, how else would someone "take" an item off of the character? It's never been done through the database, so the only way is to login to the account, and leave your footprint. Better known as an ip. So even if I tell the "so called" hacker exactly what I look for, thats like having a sign up, that says, "Speed Trap", and your speeding anyways. Will you be caught? yep. It is unavoidable to login to the character to steal from them. I mean, if that was the case, then why would anyone report they have been hacked and their password changed, or what have you? I would never intentionally disrupt any type of game play, nor displeasure on K2 side knowingly. *Anyhow, thanks for your concern, however, concern it's not. Let me assure you of that. *I was merely trying to get some sort of player side information or ideas as to why people would do this. No one has actually given any ideas to the actual point, but thats ok. But like I said, it's harmless information.

Oh dearie me. You honestly can see no scenario where this could be relevant? Allow me to paint a purty little picture, then:

I'm a Turk. A random, nameless, stupid Turk. I may as well be someone else, but for this excercise, I'll be a Turk. I want some shiny, +8 shards, because my Turk friends laugh at my +7s. It also just so happens to be that I read these forums; my English is not incredibly happy, but I manage to gather enough from this thread anyway. I decide to go to a random, nameless, Turk cyber cafe and log in on my character there (oooh, goody, IP variation); perhaps, just like you, I'm smarter than the average bear, and decide to use a different ISP, or a proxy -- the specifics matter not, what matters is the fact that I've now logged in with a squeaky clean IP that you can't do much with. What do I do next, then? Why, try to upgrade my shards, of course. Oh, snap! My goodness! Henny penny the sky is falling! They broke! Whatever will I do? Oh yeah, log in on all accounts, burn everything I have, or give it out to random denizens of Moradon. And what do we have here? IP variation, I've been on all three characters, cleared them all out, and now I'm ready to report my account as hacked, to get my trusty ol' shards back. Sure, they might be +7, but they're better off at +7 than broken. I'm a random, nameless, stupid Turk, and even I know that.

Far-fetched? Nah. After all, the fake hack reports of people logging in on their own accounts aren't either, are they? You want to know why people are doing this? Why would anyone try to scam customer support? Greed. No, duh. The same reason people like Covetous, Nil8er, and countless others scammed live chat (in much the same way, too) back in the olden timey days. Unfortunately for these new wanna-be scammers, they haven't been exactly blessed with an iota of common sense. Of course, the less they know, the better. It'll make your job easier, and the servers much cleaner. Speed traps? Speeding? You've shown them where the speed traps are, and now they can slow down just in time. Is this a fuckup of epic proportions? No, not really. It's not exactly kosher, either. Feh.[/b]

Well, actually, your pointing out exactly what Im talking about. People need to stop doing it, me talking about it, is going to make people stop? Dont be rediculous. Ive spammed messages, EVEN IN TURKISH, that say, Dont use 3rd party programs, dont cheat, does that mean it's going to stick in their minds? Im not giving anyone a reason, nor even hinting of how to do this, people are already doing it now. And all of a sudden, Im the bad guy because Im telling people to stop trying it? Goodness. Shame on me, to tell people not to cheat. I should be shot. Once again, as Ive asked the post to be deleted, because goodness me, I sure dont want anyone to get the WRONG idea of me, a GM, showing people how to scam other people, what am I thinking Futile? Im a moron. Goodness me. /end sarcasm. Thats me stepping out of a Gm role, and basically saying, thats ludicris and you know it.

[userbin]

<3 madness

pm plyz ?

[Infinitemadness]

Pretty mage? plyz? Pm? on here? Well thats all the time I have for today, it's my time to go home. I'll talk to everyone at a different time Bye bye.

[phantomlink]

kk, i'll get msn ready

[Volcanic]

Well, actually, your pointing out exactly what Im talking about. People need to stop doing it, me talking about it, is going to make people stop? Dont be rediculous. Ive spammed messages, EVEN IN TURKISH, that say, Dont use 3rd party programs, dont cheat, does that mean it's going to stick in their minds? Im not giving anyone a reason, nor even hinting of how to do this, people are already doing it now. And all of a sudden, Im the bad guy because Im telling people to stop trying it? Goodness. Shame on me, to tell people not to cheat. I should be shot. Once again, as Ive asked the post to be deleted, because goodness me, I sure dont want anyone to get the WRONG idea of me, a GM, showing people how to scam other people, what am I thinking Futile? Im a moron. Goodness me. /end sarcasm. Thats me stepping out of a Gm role, and basically saying, thats ludicris and you know it

Ye gods :huh: . So, let me get this straight, you`ve asked everyone nicely to stop, and they aren`t stopping. Ban them! Also, why are you on here telling everyone how to exploit yet more free items? You like a big workload or something?

Instead of fannying around with your thumbs up your arses, how about getting on ALL servers and cracking down hard on cheats. If someone gets banned, they should stay banned, end of. The lack of policing is the problem. If people was scared of being banned, they would think twice before cheating. However, in the current K2 climate, it pays to cheat because you have nothing to lose.

[Rommel]

i need rollback a.q :angry:

[TunaFishyMe]

Ok...my friend PolluxBR was banned a couple days ago for "advertising 3rd party programs" during luferson at war. Everyone knows that Pollux was selling a Rogue Chitin 8/15 Pads for a long time. Ive seen him shout it in eslant before. He told me he was shouting S> Rogue chitin 8/15 pads but he had a KO4life thread on his ctrl+V. IT was the thread where morax reported the mages bug abusing. If you look at the thread you can see he actually posted in the thread. Greenster banned him for advertising 3rd party programs. I told phantom about this, and he told me greenster is trying to find the exact line where he "advertised 3rd party programs" but i havent been able to contact him lately. I contacted infinitemadess but we arent in the same server so he probably cant really help. What im trying to bring up are trained GMs. I remember Saturo spawning hundreds of samma in jail do really dumbass events. Greenster comes on once in a while and makes a couple ban then goes missing for a couple weeks. If anyone know polluxbr you know he isnt a cheater. Personally, K2 should train some of their Gms before they just give them to the users. If shouting a ko4life site by accident is bannable, this company has real problems.

[n00bzZ]

That's exactly why they need me as a GM -_-

[BDragieta]

Originally posted by Infinitemadness
I'd like to get some opinions,

When someone reports to me that they are hacked, and I go and look at their login and see that they have had NO ip variences and yet they report, "Please rollback to me 1 hour ago, or 1 day ago, or 1 week ago." Or whatever, do people honestly think that customer support are thatignorant? *Im smarter then the average bear, but give me your opinion, when someone reports that they are hacked, do they not think that we would NOT look?

What about when some1 who has put ALOT of money into the game reports an account as being hacked and password changed, u wait 17 days until my gold premmy is over then tell me ur not helping non premmy users at that time...

even when i got screen shots proving the guy that hacked me still get ignored...

So if u put enough effort into provin that some1 DIDNT get hacked how about u put the same effort into helping those that did?

[wagyar]

Tuna u are right but have to remember GMs are humans they can make misstakes too, there is not such a person who would be perfect GM. I agree Greenster bans nicely but like once in a month...we need good active GM on Dies...how hard is to get one? I mean people pay thousands of dollars in week that should be enough to get few good GMs but no...everything sucks. If every server had like 2-3 gms, one GM for technical issues and 2-3 with ban tool and other basic stuff, even that would clear things up a lot.

[TunaFishyMe]

yea i understand how greenster could have made the mistake but its pretty unfortunate how someone has lost their account because they had the wrong thing on their clipboard. I dont know. Its seems kinda unfair to me. I really hope someone can help him out.

[priestish]

To be honest, CS need to be more open to on what they do. For example, they should publicize their roll back, announce what changes was made to the game after each server down. FFS, change the message of the day.

Keeping how K2 work in secret does not improve security. As a defender, you should always assume that the attack knows everything you know and more. Most crypto system are open design with a private key. The key is kept only by the needed parties while the crypto algrithm is open.

From above, I don't mean release the source of KE. Keep it private makes attacker think harder. Keeps script kitties away. However, when consider attacks or malious clients, assume they know everything you know.

Assume attacker:
1) can read the db
2) can read the source of client, server, website, and db
3) know all your ip
4) know how to bypass your firewall
5) may have malicous account in db.

bah, I c ouldwrite more but would be waste of time. PM me if you want more info.