[Rogue] Smoke Screen

[razor]

What's the community's opinion on this ability? I'm not debating about which one is better or worse (power shot being worst of the three level 80 skills by far), I just think that both SS and Critical Point have their uses.

It feels as if many consider this ability pretty much a joke compared to the almighty critical point. How come? Obviously CP will reign superior from a solo pk perspective, but in a party situation, outside deleting 1 target, CP is pretty much null in its utility value.

Blinding and Beast Hiding will only be up once per critical point, leaving the rest of the burst limited to spike / thrust and divine RNG intervention.

I've tested Smoke Screen lately in pk, and I'm blown away. It can single handedly win otherwise impossible fights to the point of seeming overpowered. Not only does the AOE blind last for 10! seconds compared to the 4-5 that gives Light Shock (mage 62 lightning AOE blind), it also has only 60 seconds cooldown compared to mage's 180. The only downside would be how it sometimes fails due to it being a projectile (like a mage casting level 33 aoe and missing due to clipping the monster's feet with the projectile), and that it can also blind allies... but that's not necessarily a bad thing. There's also Wild Advent available (70 skill, a reverse descent that tp's you on enemies) in the explore tree, an ability that when used together with 5 warriors using descent on the rogue could be quite powerful.

Surprised that more people don't use this skill. Is the dependency on Critical point that massive? Are people so infatuated with 2-5k damage hits that they'd give up on utility for it? Or is it that people are so used to following what's 'normal' that any different approach seems laughable to them?

10+ years into this game there's still room for innovation in my opinion. Several skill trees are downright ignored and written off as useless when perhaps someone could find a way to make them work (priest heal tree, warrior defense tree, anything kurian).

[itzbryan]

people are so used to following what's 'normal' that any different approach seems laughable to them?

12345678901

[Zwn]

well noone likes to play full support, so the only pple who could manage this build must have enormous ap to begin with i d say.

Next u have to see what u give up, its not just cp/blinding but also bb, throwing knife and either spike or matchless (55/80/5, 50/80/10, u can even trade drain for sourcemarking and stealth for weapon cancelation if u want go full utility), so i think its a pretty enormous downside, and it will remain a troll build u can have fun with for a session, but i cant see how it can be better than the normal 80/36/20, except for a few situations.

Ultimately all skills u get (800ac,wild advent, smoke screen) can have a negative effect, and u might imagine that pk would be horrible if theres a few smokescreens on each side.

[razor]

55/80/5 is what I use. Normal rotation is enough to kill debuffed targets idk.

[Steez]

Support/Tank archer I can see it being useful. Support assasin is kind of stupid, but archers seems to have some utility which may allow them to go further into the explore tree. If the rogue in question in in a mage party (or is assisting a mage party) then:
AoE blind -> mages run in -> no one knows whats going on -> rekt.

I am curious, once it is casted, does everyone in the area stay blinded for the entire 10 seconds? Or can you exit the cast radius and get your vision back. I assume it is the first one, which would make the skill better since you AoE a group of enemies (and allies, but screw those noobs who KS) and have your party run in, not being blinded.

Scaled Skin along with Wild Advent even further add to the 'support/utility' archer since the combination of those two skills allows you to insta-teleport to the enemy priest and remain tanky while trying to cancel his heals. Warriors can descent onto you from here to make short work of them.

I imagine the combo would go something like this: Smoke screen AoE -> Wild advent to enemy priest -> Scaled Skin -> start AS/MS comboing as you warriors descent in to help you.

Its a deadly combination, just requires good co-ordination (voice chat for sure)

[razor]

Support/Tank archer I can see it being useful. Support assasin is kind of stupid, but archers seems to have some utility which may allow them to go further into the explore tree. If the rogue in question in in a mage party (or is assisting a mage party) then:
AoE blind -> mages run in -> no one knows whats going on -> rekt.

I am curious, once it is casted, does everyone in the area stay blinded for the entire 10 seconds? Or can you exit the cast radius and get your vision back. I assume it is the first one, which would make the skill better since you AoE a group of enemies (and allies, but screw those noobs who KS) and have your party run in, not being blinded.

Scaled Skin along with Wild Advent even further add to the 'support/utility' archer since the combination of those two skills allows you to insta-teleport to the enemy priest and remain tanky while trying to cancel his heals. Warriors can descent onto you from here to make short work of them.

I imagine the combo would go something like this: Smoke screen AoE -> Wild advent to enemy priest -> Scaled Skin -> start AS/MS comboing as you warriors descent in to help you.

Its a deadly combination, just requires good co-ordination (voice chat for sure)

Archer loses shadow hunter, ice and lightning shot if you go for 55/80/5, and you lose everything in master including magic shield if you go 80/62. (80/66/2 could work at level 83).

I think sin can work. Spike is their main skill anyway, and without 70/72/75 unlocked I'm not really missing on a lot of burst damage. Illusion is a very interesting skill to have too...

[WnxDemonKing666]

Alots of sin dont like to lose that solo option if they go with smoke screen. Sure it provide passable CC in a pty vs pty situation, but not good enough to lose dps for dueling, and overall dps for brusting down a target. Not to mention master skill 15% dps reduction.

If you like the option of having a disengage/engage tool then by all mean, go for it. Smoke screen is great for those purposes. But not so much if u are the sort that like to 1v1 and solo roam.

Also, so many sins macro minnor heal or tpt it, so sad :<

[david4244]

Depends on the server // the way you usually PK.


1.: Is it hard to open skills or not. E.g at your example, if you aren't having 75-72-70 open anyway, then obviously explorer build seems to be a more viable choice, however with all the 3 opened, it's a harder choice already.

2.: Is it a farm or a pk server. If it's a farm server, are you farming with that sin? What kinda mobs are you farming, low ones, enough to have the low lvl attack skills, or high def mobs, where Bloody beast is a must.

3.: Are you mostly PKing in solo / duo / trio ? --> smaller parties, where u gotta do most of the killings yourself. If so, then again CP and Bloody Beast (Still the best sin skill, especially on servers w/o stab2, since u can't do a full, fast rotation w/o BB there). Or big parties, where killing yourself matters less.



I could go on, but overall as for myself since i'm mostly soloing, duoing, etc i'd never go for that build but considering it's steamKO, with skills mostly not opened, and if you are continously having parties for pk, not rly soloing, duoing etc, then ye it's a kinda good build, otherwise nope.

[razor]

What is so attractive to me is that there is no counter. You are basically useless for 10 seconds. Cube on a priest can be quite crippling, now think of SS as cubes for melees but not one instead all or most of them. At least with cube you can coordinate in voice chat about what's going on. While blinded, even if only half of your party is, communication can't help you.

I'm sure that a coordinated team could shake up the 'meta' (or lack thereof). Smoke screens, kurian's aoe stun, 80 def warr on bezoar, etc. Some can be quite gimmicky but until a group wrecks with these (possibly requiring a movie), nobody will even try to innovate due to either being too lazy or just disregarding these ideas.

[david4244]

Ye it's gg, but as you mentioned it too, it could rather rape in special scenarios --> well coordinated parties, certain classes being there (porutu for ex) to support it with their skills, making it even better, etc. And for the rest of the day, for farming, while in a solo pk, or with regular crappy party members, it's more like a disadvantage.

Plus as mostly every1 at online gaming, KO players got hella big Ego aswell ---> hate losing vses more than anything else mostly, hence why i don't see any1 playing with this build for a long time, or atleast surely not an acceptable amount of ppl and sacraficing their chances for winning vses, or doing 1v2s etc.


PS.: Been years since i last used it, does it blind your party members too, or only allies (+ enemies ofc) outside the party?

[itzbryan]

I'm sure that a coordinated team could shake up the 'meta' (or lack thereof). Smoke screens, kurian's aoe stun, 80 def warr on bezoar, etc. Some can be quite gimmicky but until a group wrecks with these (possibly requiring a movie), nobody will even try to innovate due to either being too lazy or just disregarding these ideas.

Yep. And most of the players here are far too good to ever need improvement to their play style. So the only way to make it happen is to have it as an interesting movie idea at best -- I still want to see 8 BPs!

[Manhattan]

I would say that for assassin it is a complete waste of time. You would be a crippled one so it kills the point of the class but for archer, just like you said, it can be indeed amazing if done properly. It's a choice to make since there can be 2 types of archer, the AP driven ones who just like to stand from a distance shooting people and the tankers who enjoy going in the fight and completely disable priests (which is what I go for), and for that, all you need is arrow shower, multiple shot, arc shot and styx so allying that with scaled skin (so you can go in and tank), Wild Advent (so you can get the hell out as well going straight for the target in the blink of an eye) and SS would be just awesome.

But there's a few restrictions for people to opt for that build which might answer your question on why it is so disregarded and that is: having a well coordinated clan that uses voice communication and forgetting the ego.

So if you like that play style and have what is required to make it worth, it is just perfect. That being said, my guess is that you're having a hell of a great time there.

[razor]

Ye it's gg, but as you mentioned it too, it could rather rape in special scenarios --> well coordinated parties, certain classes being there (porutu for ex) to support it with their skills, making it even better, etc. And for the rest of the day, for farming, while in a solo pk, or with regular crappy party members, it's more like a disadvantage.

Plus as mostly every1 at online gaming, KO players got hella big Ego aswell ---> hate losing vses more than anything else mostly, hence why i don't see any1 playing with this build for a long time, or atleast surely not an acceptable amount of ppl and sacraficing their chances for winning vses, or doing 1v2s etc.


PS.: Been years since i last used it, does it blind your party members too, or only allies (+ enemies ofc) outside the party?

It blinds everyone. I like this since it enhances its uses by a lot (often for trollish purposes). @Manhattan I'm using it as a sin atm, guess it doesn't hurt as much since I don't have 70, 72 or 75 unlocked.

[ilterates]

its the best skill EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR +1 to razor

shut up. no one asked you!

[Manhattan]

Well if It blinds everyone then Idk anymore. Guess that, like you said, it's just a troll skill. If you get creative you could provide us with some sweet alternative trolling footage