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Zone MYKO (Stay tuned)

This is a discussion on Zone MYKO (Stay tuned) within the Private Servers forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; @ ISpitOnYourGrave in our forums we have rules, you don't follow them you get banned, simple as that. @ BlackOak ...
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  1. #1171
    GhosT88 Senior Member joecolxvi's Avatar
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    @ISpitOnYourGrave in our forums we have rules, you don't follow them you get banned, simple as that.
    @
    BlackOak /ignored

  2. #1172
    GhosT88 Senior Member joecolxvi's Avatar
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    Cool video from a lucky player having fun with the anvil along with some friends:


  3. #1173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackOak View Post
    For some small minded people the truth is too much to bear, and their single iota of power in life can overwhelms them into a frenzy of uncontrollable ignorance and lust to inflict pain. We must forgive these bastards and hope to meet them on the street in RL for a mississippi smackdown
    Well if you mean by small minded Dulan :-). He is one of most muted / banned user from forums I ever met. I would like to see what was the "truth" and how much harsh words did it contain (if it even contain anything else? lol).

  4. #1174
    Ayylmao Senior Member Vice's Avatar
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    Shitty Devs killing their own server by making every single mage clan except perhaps JEGAND quit because they run 3 parties.

    You guys can't actually figure out how to fix the issues with stunrates, staves working the way they should as well as uniques working as intended.

    Hilarious ��

  5. #1175
    God. Moderator Kallop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vice View Post
    Shitty Devs killing their own server by making every single mage clan except perhaps JEGAND quit because they run 3 parties.

    You guys can't actually figure out how to fix the issues with stunrates, staves working the way they should as well as uniques working as intended.

    Hilarious 
    Stun rates are hard coded into the client in 12xx version, there's no fix for them.

  6. #1176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallop View Post
    Stun rates are hard coded into the client in 12xx version, there's no fix for them.
    That's actually not really an excuse. The way it works in later versions is as simple as they could've made it be: it will only stun (or slow) a player when that player actually receives a response indicating they were a target of that skill (which also means no effect when there's no stun/slow applied, but that's a lesser issue).
    The way it worked before was that it always sent a response, and then the client controlled it by implementing the rate there.

    So... it's fairly trivial to accomplish the exact same thing by just forcing it to always stun in the client (i.e. simply removing logic), and then enforcing the rate on the server's end by just selectively sending responses, aka the same as it works officially now.

    As far as solving the lesser issue with the effects not being applied, that's also fairly simple: just split up the skill into 2 skills (stun part becomes a separate skill). That way you keep your effect (sends a response for the first skill), and you can selectively stun by sending a response for the second.
    SirKaoS likes this.

  7. #1177
    God. Moderator Kallop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    That's actually not really an excuse. The way it works in later versions is as simple as they could've made it be: it will only stun (or slow) a player when that player actually receives a response indicating they were a target of that skill (which also means no effect when there's no stun/slow applied, but that's a lesser issue).
    The way it worked before was that it always sent a response, and then the client controlled it by implementing the rate there.

    So... it's fairly trivial to accomplish the exact same thing by just forcing it to always stun in the client (i.e. simply removing logic), and then enforcing the rate on the server's end by just selectively sending responses, aka the same as it works officially now.

    As far as solving the lesser issue with the effects not being applied, that's also fairly simple: just split up the skill into 2 skills (stun part becomes a separate skill). That way you keep your effect (sends a response for the first skill), and you can selectively stun by sending a response for the second.
    But can this kind of change be implemented in the 12XX files most servers use? Or is it something only possible using an emulator with the newer game files? If this is actually do-able, I must admit it's rather amusing if you can nonchalantly procure a solution to a problem that many, many PSKO developers have struggled with for years.

  8. #1178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallop View Post
    But can this kind of change be implemented in the 12XX files most servers use? Or is it something only possible using an emulator with the newer game files? If this is actually do-able, I must admit it's rather amusing if you can nonchalantly procure a solution to a problem that many, many PSKO developers have struggled with for years.
    Easier with source (but that's a given), but taking the second part out of the equation it's pretty simple - you just hook in an extra check (for the rate). Logic flow's fairly simple there and already supports what you need, so you don't need to screw around with anything more than that - existing checks already go where you need, so you can just add onto them.
    Personally, to keep it simple I'd just make the check call a function in a DLL to handle the rate logic itself, then you can just write up the (now) server-side rate logic in C (rather than assembly).

    Anything that involves actually changing their logic can get messy & unpredictable (yay, KO), but this doesn't even remotely do so. All you're doing is removing their logic from the client (to enforce it at 100%), and adding in (another) check (which calls your rate logic code) which upon failure, acts the same as all their other checks.

    As far as the second part of that (i.e. calling a second skill), offhand I'm not sure how I'd handle that in 1.298 (it may be reasonably simple also, but I'm not terribly sure offhand).
    Having said that, all that's addressing is the minor visual issue that official (for the most part, anyway) suffers from as well, so it's by no means necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallop View Post
    I must admit it's rather amusing if you can nonchalantly procure a solution to a problem that many, many PSKO developers have struggled with for years.
    It's just something I've had to look into. Understanding how it works is well, *most* of the battle.
    Kallop likes this.

  9. #1179
    SEXIEST NOSE ON EARTH Senior Member SheldonCooper's Avatar
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    YourKO has done that, if you check their server, they downgraded higher source to myko. Hense their server allows them to work with skills like blinding critical point and so forth ... the ones whom functionality is known for 14xx and higher. Also the stun slow rates are handled the way twostars described it there. If one were to spend time on myko version again. For sure the way to go is from higher source skimming it down. Better invest more time into that, because it's much easier to make expansions later back to higher version once you know you've already had a working higher version of KO and you downgraded it for the purpose of that old nostalgia. The compatibily and upgrades is a breeze if you do that. But again ... It should take quite some time if you don't 100% know what you're doing and really a lot of time if you semi know what you're doing :P

  10. #1180
    Little archer Senior Member
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    OSKO tried first (2015) to use v1800 and just reskinned / added old maps.

    Didn't work out lol.

  11. #1181
    SEXIEST NOSE ON EARTH Senior Member SheldonCooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor View Post
    OSKO tried first (2015) to use v1800 and just reskinned / added old maps.

    Didn't work out lol.
    Osko did very amateur job, was nothing near how it's suppose to be, they didn't know what they were doing.

  12. #1182
    GhosT88 Senior Member joecolxvi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    Easier with source (but that's a given), but taking the second part out of the equation it's pretty simple - you just hook in an extra check (for the rate). Logic flow's fairly simple there and already supports what you need, so you don't need to screw around with anything more than that - existing checks already go where you need, so you can just add onto them.
    Personally, to keep it simple I'd just make the check call a function in a DLL to handle the rate logic itself, then you can just write up the (now) server-side rate logic in C (rather than assembly).

    Anything that involves actually changing their logic can get messy & unpredictable (yay, KO), but this doesn't even remotely do so. All you're doing is removing their logic from the client (to enforce it at 100%), and adding in (another) check (which calls your rate logic code) which upon failure, acts the same as all their other checks.

    As far as the second part of that (i.e. calling a second skill), offhand I'm not sure how I'd handle that in 1.298 (it may be reasonably simple also, but I'm not terribly sure offhand).
    Having said that, all that's addressing is the minor visual issue that official (for the most part, anyway) suffers from as well, so it's by no means necessary.


    It's just something I've had to look into. Understanding how it works is well, *most* of the battle.
    Hello and thanks for the explanation of the solution, even it does not look as easy as you describe it for me (do you replace the affected skill with a new one that has a stun rate, or there will be 2x skills applied; the first one as the main damage skill and the second is the one that will define the stun rate), either ways and for someone who just aquired the source codes from SOACS it will not be easy to make this change.

    The main problem with mage class in v12XX is the way the stun rate is calculated, up till now and by doing many tests an HP built mage will stun/slow way better than an int built mage which is just broken, and in order to fix this using the DLL i imagine it will be a hard long one as you will need to check everytime the character int points (armor/weapons + scrolls + stats) everytime he uses slow/stun skills, i have 0 visibility over the newer versions of ko and how this is set but almost every other PSKO using v12XX files have the same problem, they all try to level it the best they can, but up till now there is no serious fix unless i am mistaken.

  13. #1183
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    There isn't a serious fix, but let's say there is a "hard-coded formula", why not just have Osman rewrite it and put a variable in the way that you set in the .ini to make it lean one way or the other, or better yet? You have the SOACS source, post the actual formula here for it, I am sure someone can figure out a better way.

  14. #1184
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    Quote Originally Posted by joecolxvi View Post
    Hello and thanks for the explanation of the solution, even it does not look as easy as you describe it for me (do you replace the affected skill with a new one that has a stun rate, or there will be 2x skills applied; the first one as the main damage skill and the second is the one that will define the stun rate), either ways and for someone who just aquired the source codes from SOACS it will not be easy to make this change.
    Are you talking about what I said regarding the visual issue? With this, you want the damage part to always apply, but the stun itself needs to be separate so you can have the client enforce the stun effect 100% of the time when you apply it from the server's end.
    Implementing the trigger for the 2nd skill though is a little bit outside of what I hoped to explain, because I'm not entirely sure of the scope of that (theoretically just calling it as the client would call it should work fine, even though it's stupid to do that since you should have differing check logic -- maybe you could still keep them intact but tweak the skill ID being sent in the packet for the buff itself, I'm not sure. Not using source for the server makes this a bit more difficult to implement without screwing things over, TBH).

    Regardless, this part's unnecessary -- official did this for some skills but not all, so the ones that don't still suffer this visual effect issue (i.e. no visual effect for the damage portion of the skill when a stun/slow fails to apply).
    Not really a big deal. You can ignore that entirely.

    Moving the rates to the server, however, is another story. This is pretty simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by joecolxvi View Post
    The main problem with mage class in v12XX is the way the stun rate is calculated, up till now and by doing many tests an HP built mage will stun/slow way better than an int built mage which is just broken, and in order to fix this using the DLL i imagine it will be a hard long one as you will need to check everytime the character int points (armor/weapons + scrolls + stats) everytime he uses slow/stun skills, i have 0 visibility over the newer versions of ko and how this is set but almost every other PSKO using v12XX files have the same problem, they all try to level it the best they can, but up till now there is no serious fix unless i am mistaken.
    There's no need to overcomplicate your thinking of this.

    The way it works now:
    1. A uses the stun skill on B.
    2. Server tells player B that the stun skill was used on them.
    3. B's client determines whether or not the stun effect should apply to them (i.e. enforce the stun rate).

    The way it works officially:
    1. A uses the stun skill on B.
    2. Server enforces the stun rate. If the stun shouldn't be applied, it doesn't tell player B anything. If it does, it sends the response to B.
    3. Player B's client applies the stun effect.

    So all you need to do is have the client always apply the stun effect (i.e. remove the rate control from it), and shift it to the server.
    Enforcing it on the server's end comes down to sending the packet to the client or not, which is exactly how the other checks in that method work already.

    The "hardest" part of this is emulating the rate logic itself, but it's pretty simple to see how this works from the client when you go to remove it. It's a really simple algorithm.
    In terms of data, the data's all accessible on the server directly. You don't need to go calculate stats from items etc, it's there for you to use. Every piece of data the rate logic references in the client is easily accessed via the server without any fuss.

    Edit:
    Forgot to address the issue there with the original algo. You'll see it when you take a look at it to remove/emulate, it's pretty glaring of an oversight.

  15. #1185
    GhosT88 Senior Member joecolxvi's Avatar
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    @twostars Thank you again for the detailed explanation, we will take a look on this and try to apply what you recommand as a solution for this issue, even tho we are struggling with the low-level programming language used there but even in case we fail we will seek help from osmanx to try and solve this. As many other servers as mentionned before are having the same issue and it is very frustrating when it comes to explaning to players how the whole process is not working as it must. From our side and if we succeed we will share the solution with any other PSKO out there who are also hoping for this to be solved, the main work is done by giving the main guide lines into solving this and now we must move forward with the technical part, again thanks to everyone for their ideas and help, i will keep you updated asap.

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