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Crazy talk - HP Flame mage thread

This is a discussion on Crazy talk - HP Flame mage thread within the Class Questions and Tips forums, part of the Game Questions & Tips category; Okay, okay, if asked, everyone and their cousin will say going HP flame is dumb. If you are flame mage, ...
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  1. #1
    pthawaii
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    Default Crazy talk - HP Flame mage thread

    Okay, okay, if asked, everyone and their cousin will say going HP flame is dumb. If you are flame mage, you go for max damage. If you want to be support, go ice or light, blah blah blah. But let me pitch another side of the story.

    First, there is a lvl 83 mage I know (I consider him a pro gamer), and he always had some points in HP. He is top 15 NP holder, NP symbol the whole bit. His logic was, it doesn't matter how hard you hit if you're dead. Our server also is mostly melee. VERY rare for mage pk parties. So 99% of the time, you are mage in melee pk party.

    At first, I thought this was ridiculous (still do to some extent). But fact is, when he pks with clan, they own. And, they go up against some good parties, he not only lives, tps, but makes his fair share of kills.

    Okay, on to my mage. I'm lvl 82, flame, max mp, 160 INT, rest HP. Complete +8, scortch8, gb, in, wse2, CE2, fr2's. 80% of my time is pking with 2-3 friends, during times server is empty, and it really helps if I can add damage. 10% of the time I aoe some noob crap for drops or xp. 10% of the time I might be in a big melee pk party, with lots of ubers on. It's this last one where I run into trouble. Once duffed, I go down pretty fast.

    When I was full HP ice, I was nearly unkillable. It was borderline boring. Couldn't be killed, couldn't kill anyone. Couldn't solo xp. I loved HP ice in big melee pk parties, but I hated it in small pk parties with low #'s in cz (most often my play time, enemy just town) and couldn't solo anything.

    So onto the crazy talk of HP flame mage. What if I went full HP flame, with min INT and MP to wear armor and staff? I make up that my damage might be cut by 40%-50% (go from staffing people 900 to 500, meteor 1100 to 600), but I'd have a ton of hp and def. I'd also hit harder than HP ice mage, esp with fr2.

    Sooooo, if I went HP flame, 80% I could still pk with small party, and still ice, and still make damage (although cut back a lot, but not back as much as if I were ice), I could 10% aoe noob mobs for crap drops and some xp (don't ask why I do this, I just enjoy it) I could even wear my MP armor set so I hit harder. AND I'd be useful in 10% bigger uber pk parties where I'm going up against good parties with full db's, and maybe even do it more (cause right now, I don't join a lot cause I feel like I'm a lil useless, cause when I die, can't tp party members etc.). Given what I do, it doesn't seem like going full HP flame takes that much away, most I'll lose is when pking with small party cause we will prolly get towned on me.

    Okay, thoughts. I used to think putting any points into HP as flame mage was crazy. But now I'm not so sure, since I'm not thinking my damage reduction will be as big as the gains I make in hp and def as an HP mage.

  2. #2
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    this is the first i ever heard of this if you can find out how this works out for you and then you can let me know what kind of damage you are dealing and what kind of hp and def you have.

  3. #3
    DeHealer
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    I do not play Fire mage, but light mage, and I've heard from several people Hp build is the best one of all, I play full mp lvl 80 lighting mage and well I do hit hard, but have very low HP, I am thinking of going 160Int 140Mp rest hp, think I can boost my hp to 6k+ (scrolled) and still be able to kill with decent rate.
    As for fire mage same thing will apply, its just playing the right way, dotting, using the mana drain etc..
    Its a style of playing..
    Gl

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    theres a few ways you can go about this. Personally i dont like the idea of going full hp as fire, but i dont see why you couldnt take SOME of the points out of mp and put them into hp. This is just an example, but for awhile i was ice mage, 160 int, 200 mp rest hp. I hit reasonably hard 600+ with blade and 8,9 sometimes 1 k with prismatic. thats with dual shios + 2 oasis + 2 rb or garp + 1 rb. I liked hitting hard, but yea only had about 3.8 4 k hp unbuffed? anyway. Now similar to your situation, i was not in alot of mages parties and tend to be the only mage in my clan parties or randoms parties etc. So it wasnt really beneficial for me to be an attack mage in a melee party. I re statted to crystal 8, hp build. Now i have 5.5 k hp and 650 ac or so unbuffed. Sounds good yea? well once i have another shio + 3/2 and a + 8 staff i predict 500 + blade which is stilll not bad damage. So i reckon you should give it a go, whether you go 160 int 200 mp rest hp or even drop down to 150 mp or just enough for hellblood. Be interesting to see how hard you still hit. GL

  5. #5
    El Gran Tanke Senior Member gimmecookiesnao's Avatar
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    just go paper at lvl 77+ little less ac alot more hp

    235 mp rest hp



    this is with +7 cursed staff
    Last edited by gimmecookiesnao; 11-04-2009 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #6
    pthawaii
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    Good feedback so far.

    Painf00l, the reason I cringe at only added "some" to HP is because I really don't think you get bang for your buck til you start adding over 100HP (cause you get added def > 100 added to HP, before that, you only get added HP). So yeah, I'm one of those all or nothing guys, but only cause I want value for my skill points.

    gimmecookiesnao, oddly enough, I've thought about the paper build, but my challenge is
    1. Already have a complete +8 set, but I suppose getting +8 paper set is easy enough, +9 might take awhile.
    2. Already have scortching, would need lyaocon8 (hard to get) or wood10 (also hard to get).
    3. I'd have no def armors unless I invested in talia (not a bad idea).

    But it's certainly something to try and then check damage.

    The other reason I like the HP build (or paper for HP build) is cause I think UNDY is something they didn't think through. In other words, I don't think they ever thought UNDY would be > 2500 buff. I know, I'm not giving them much credit but...anyways

    So it's almost like cheating when a mage has THAT much HP with UNDY.

    Bottom line, I hit pretty darn hard as full MP flame mage with fr2's and scorch8, but fact is, against top notch parties, I get duffed and those uber warriors/BPs/sins pretty much own me fast.

    Would love to hear any thoughts on what the damage reduction is when going from full MP 255 to full HP mage. My take is it's about 40% reduction in staff and aoe's at the most.

    Thanks!

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    Senior Member cizia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pthawaii View Post
    2. Already have scortching, would need lyaocon8 (hard to get) or wood10 (also hard to get).
    Hello! It's Forgotten Frontiers here ^^ just get Kaul / Gold Aztec Fulitol and own lol it pwns any other staff

    I'm for 220mp/rest hp

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    Senior Member Draven's Avatar
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    love hp build. i agree with Cizia about the 220mp rest into HP. Good damage, great HP and good ac bonuses.

    ive even went paper fire mage with DS+7 to swap out for small support.

    paper mage is only way to go......

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    _.-~=FackaBitch=~-._ Senior Member Gaudior's Avatar
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    hehe paper mages are back this is what cursed staffs do btw when i was playing in forgotten frontiers, as priest i had gab's adamant+7 and scorpion shield +7, and holy animor+8/lycaon hammer+7... the mages got to be really hard and i had to use ss+7/lycaon+7 often more than the holy+8/gab+7... and only 83 sins with insane ap can easily pwn mages by 1-2 hit. so with a cursed staff and paper gear, mages hit insane hard. and saving some points for HP is not that much lost from hits at all.

  10. #10
    El Gran Tanke Senior Member gimmecookiesnao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pthawaii View Post
    Good feedback so far.

    Painf00l, the reason I cringe at only added "some" to HP is because I really don't think you get bang for your buck til you start adding over 100HP (cause you get added def > 100 added to HP, before that, you only get added HP). So yeah, I'm one of those all or nothing guys, but only cause I want value for my skill points.

    gimmecookiesnao, oddly enough, I've thought about the paper build, but my challenge is
    1. Already have a complete +8 set, but I suppose getting +8 paper set is easy enough, +9 might take awhile.
    2. Already have scortching, would need lyaocon8 (hard to get) or wood10 (also hard to get).
    3. I'd have no def armors unless I invested in talia (not a bad idea).

    But it's certainly something to try and then check damage.

    The other reason I like the HP build (or paper for HP build) is cause I think UNDY is something they didn't think through. In other words, I don't think they ever thought UNDY would be > 2500 buff. I know, I'm not giving them much credit but...anyways

    So it's almost like cheating when a mage has THAT much HP with UNDY.

    Bottom line, I hit pretty darn hard as full MP flame mage with fr2's and scorch8, but fact is, against top notch parties, I get duffed and those uber warriors/BPs/sins pretty much own me fast.

    Would love to hear any thoughts on what the damage reduction is when going from full MP 255 to full HP mage. My take is it's about 40% reduction in staff and aoe's at the most.

    Thanks!

    they are cursed staff that have no int requirement at +7 they give u -70 ac

    but at +7 its and fucking strong staff.

    if u got complete set +8...... it definetly wont be hard getting mage paper+9 complete set is like 3 times more expensive if i member right.

    also i been toying with the idea of a paper fire/sheild mage

    paper armor let u fool around with ur stats points to get something better

    if u went out and got paper +9 a +7 cursed staff and a dread shield or maybe you were able to get a gabs admant

    you would have a more than decent mage that would definetly survive gang bangs

    of course you would lose ac while u cast novas and staffin but it would take alot more to kill you with a shield on


  11. #11
    pthawaii
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    That paper build is looking good man, and I forgot about the new staffs. That's pretty sweet (although I'm still worried about the low defens, but I suppose with IN and GB, that should help). Getting paper +9 set is doable, just gotta shop a lot. Well, something to think about, that's for sure.

    Now, I see you mentioned GAB or DS shield, are you saying paper build with 91 in str? Not sure I'm on board with that, but then again, never thought I'd consider paper either.
    Last edited by pthawaii; 11-05-2009 at 01:08 AM.

  12. #12
    El Gran Tanke Senior Member gimmecookiesnao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pthawaii View Post
    That paper build is looking good man, and I forgot about the new staffs. That's pretty sweet (although I'm still worried about the low defens, but I suppose with IN and GB, that should help). Getting paper +9 set is doable, just gotta shop a lot. Well, something to think about, that's for sure.

    Now, I see you mentioned GAB or DS shield, are you saying paper build with 91 in str? Not sure I'm on board with that, but then again, never thought I'd consider paper either.

    yup

    with 91 str you would still have high hp but u would also be able to tank alot more.

    mage already wear shield an ss when they run away. why not sacrifice so point and wear a ds or gabs to help them survive alot more.

    that would also solve your defense armor issues.

    pros
    good hp still
    very good ac with shield on
    and still good magic power
    you can switch to support cuz u have the hp AND the ac to do it

    cons
    little lower ac without shield

  13. #13
    Senior Member regiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmecookiesnao View Post
    yup

    with 91 str you would still have high hp but u would also be able to tank alot more.

    mage already wear shield an ss when they run away. why not sacrifice so point and wear a ds or gabs to help them survive alot more.

    that would also solve your defense armor issues.

    pros
    good hp still
    very good ac with shield on
    and still good magic power
    you can switch to support cuz u have the hp AND the ac to do it

    cons
    little lower ac without shield
    well what you guys think about same bulid but for lithing mage with imirs 3 and faun +7

  14. #14
    El Gran Tanke Senior Member gimmecookiesnao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regiss View Post
    well what you guys think about same bulid but for lithing mage with imirs 3 and faun +7


    i would say its a good option


    the only problem with being a shielded paper mage is

    that with out the shield you would have about 180 -200 less ac than complete mage but still have about 1.5k more hp.

    this means that while u blade or cast novas your are a little vulnerable to getting hit harder.

    1 on 1 it should not be a problem if u got good combo

    if u got 2 people or more then u chuck on that gabs or drread shield and just laugh at the amount of damage the melles would be doing to u. and then u can take ur time and tp ur party to u

  15. #15
    Senior Member regiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimmecookiesnao View Post
    i would say its a good option


    the only problem with being a shielded paper mage is

    that with out the shield you would have about 180 -200 less ac than complete mage but still have about 1.5k more hp.

    this means that while u blade or cast novas your are a little vulnerable to getting hit harder.

    1 on 1 it should not be a problem if u got good combo

    if u got 2 people or more then u chuck on that gabs or drread shield and just laugh at the amount of damage the melles would be doing to u. and then u can take ur time and tp ur party to u

    well mostly i`m wondering about stun rate, never tryed lithing with paper bulid before.

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