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Dagger or Jamadar? Eskirma or Scaled Skin? A case study of the modern sin weps

This is a discussion on Dagger or Jamadar? Eskirma or Scaled Skin? A case study of the modern sin weps within the Class Questions and Tips forums, part of the Game Questions & Tips category; Please disregard this thread my whole life is a lie. See the comments below to find out what I mean. ...
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  1. #1
    SuperSin Senior Member JayClaiba's Avatar
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    Default Dagger or Jamadar? Eskirma or Scaled Skin? A case study of the modern sin weps

    Please disregard this thread my whole life is a lie.
    See the comments below to find out what I mean.


    Buddy of mine asked me if he should keep Eskirma, thought since I'm typing this all out I might as well share with the community.

    Eskirma is trash if you're using dual moonlights, as with my experience jamadars don't seem to have a high chance of critical hits.

    Note: Considering a newer server like Orion, you'd be an idiot to play dual moonlights since Irons/Jamadar def is even in abundance. When the server opened, there were 0 irons and 0 jamadar def, and they began to come into the server as it grew, compared to a server like Europa or Gordion that has seen a million irons and newly introduced and valued jamadar def.

    Let's assume we're attacking:

    A priest with 35 dd (gabs+iron) and 10 jamadar def..

    Weapon Math Anti def reduction
    Dual moon 10 10
    Khanjar / moon (35dd/2) + (10jd/2) 22
    Khanj/moon + eskrm ((35dd-10)/2) + (10jd/2) 17.5
    Dual dagger + eskrm 35-10 25

    A priest with 25 dd (gabs) and 10 jamadar def..

    Weapon Math Anti def reduction
    Dual moon 10 10
    Khanjar / moon (25dd/2) + (10jd/2) 17.5
    Khanj/moon + eskrm ((25dd-10)/2) + (10jd/2) 12.5
    Dual dagger + eskrm 25-10 15

    A priest with 25 dd (gabs) and 0 jd

    Weapon Math Anti def reduction
    Dual moon 0 0
    Khanjar / moon (25dd/2) 12.5
    Khanj/moon + eskrm ((25dd-10)/2) 7.5
    Dual dagger + eskrm 25-10 15

    A priest with 25 dd (gabs) and 20 jamadar def..

    Weapon Math Anti def reduction
    Dual moon 20 20
    Khanjar / moon (25dd/2) + (20jd/2) 22.5
    Khanj/moon + eskrm ((25dd-10)/2) + (20jd/2) 17.5
    Dual dagger + eskrm 25-10 15

    A melee with 20 jamadar def..

    Weapon Math Anti def reduction
    Dual moon 20 20
    Khanjar / moon 20jd/2 10
    Khanj/moon + eskrm 20jd/2 10
    Dual dagger + eskrm 0 0

    A melee with 10dd 10 jamadar def..

    Weapon Math Anti def reduction
    Dual moon 10 10
    Khanjar / moon 10dd/2 + 10jd/2 10
    Khanj/moon + eskrm (10dd-10)/2 + 10jd/2 5
    Dual dagger + eskrm (10dd -10)/2 0

    Analysis

    While using dual moonlights, you effectively lower your ap by 200 at the least. My sins ap goes down by nearly 600.. BUT you are (in most cases) attacking a priest who has at MOST 10~13 jama def. Let's be honest, priests tend to use only 1 jamadar def item.

    While using dag/moon/eskirma, you are ensured a higher attack power at the cost of some damage reduction. My sin has a khanjar 11 at the moment, and even without eskirma I hit the same with dag/moon than dual moon. This is a special case since a 129 ap dagger with a 112 moon is significantly higher in AP than two 112 moons. Also, don't forget that higher ap dagger = less chance of failure + high chance of success + high chance of critical damage. Add eskirma to that and 1dag/1moon combo seems to be the way to go!

    Conclusion/TLDR
    Keep Eskirma. Scaled skin sounds alluring, but the loss of 15% damage reduction will hurt you, and when you get malice after torment after malice, you won't have safety or evade or scs running to fall back on.
    Dual daggers is ballsy and works on full ap melees
    Dual jamadars is reliable but easily rendered weak
    1 dagger 1 moonlight is the best to gamble

    Further reading

    1. Be ready to use two jamadars for priests. The odds that they are using 20+ jama def is much lower than you'd expect, although I have run into some situations where it seems that they had only 25dd.
    2. Be prepared to go into combat with 1 dagger 1 moon. Sometimes I use two daggers, since specifically on my server (Europa) many sins and especially warriors pk FULL ap.
    3. Don't rule out the two daggers. If you wanna be a REAL GG SIN you're gonna wanna have two daggers and two jamadars with you at all times. This is excellent when you are attacking full ap melees, and even mages. And Adaga priests. Considering that DD 25 is also a rarity, or not existing(?) in Orion, daggers retain crucial value.


    Video example:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIaHLfMNgRI&t=52
    In this video, you will see me attacking a gabs priest using DUAL JAMADAR and hitting a decent bit of damage, but not as much as a SuperSin typically should.. Two scenes later, you will see me attacking the same priest seconds later with TWO DAGGERS, my trusty sherion12 and dv12 at the time, and if you observe, you'll notice I hit him for a whopping 3k+, while I seemed to be averaging 2k with the jamadars.

    What does this say? Not much, but you will notice that I used Eskirma when I had two daggers to reduce his dd anti-def to 12.5. This new anti def number, combined with the daggers ~400 ap boost and a higher chance for crit going off hard, the damage is no surprise.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIaHLfMNgRI&t=108
    Same video, but now I'm attacking priests with my warrior buddies hittng H.A.R.D.
    I tend to always play dual moonlights when I'm with a tough group of warriors, as the giant fat slow strong warriors scare the priests into using as much irons as they can.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAk2yyePxj8&t=7
    Sigh.. I miss this CHD+12.. I love my DV+14 but CHD has some hidden stats or something.. I wear.. This was when I played Scaled Skin and didn't have Eskirma.. Crazy.
    Last edited by JayClaiba; 07-16-2015 at 02:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member david4244's Avatar
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    Idk, not sure but so far i remember eskrima isn't -10 dd, but -10% ----> from 35DD ---> 3,5 reduce ---> 31,5, etc. Atleast it was like that when i tested it, before quitting ~ 2010 . The average hit was obviously higher on a guy w/o iron Neck +0 and no eskrima, than iron neck +0 + eskrima on the very same dude.

    It was back then tho, maybe it aint like this, just felt like mentioning.
    Last edited by david4244; 07-02-2015 at 06:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Polak Extraordinaire Senior Member
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    Last link doesn't work, and thank you for this. Really appreciate it <3

  4. #4
    Retired Moderator razor's Avatar
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    Does eskrima effectively increase your overall damage even if people are not using DD?

  5. #5
    SuperSin Senior Member JayClaiba's Avatar
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    holy shit it's 10% not -10... I've been wrong all along wtfffffff.

    idk I still hit really hard. This thread should be deleted I'm honestly embarrassed.

  6. #6
    Polak Extraordinaire Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayClaiba View Post
    holy shit it's 10% not -10... I've been wrong all along wtfffffff.

    idk I still hit really hard. This thread should be deleted I'm honestly embarrassed.
    fucking idiot learn 2 play sin omg noob

  7. #7
    Retired Moderator razor's Avatar
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    Reading tooltips op

  8. #8
    SuperSin Senior Member JayClaiba's Avatar
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    to be fair none of the descriptions are accurate imo.. and the text is all so small.. I've been thinkin Eskirma does -10dd/arrow def for so long, I might as well ignore this.

  9. #9
    SEXIEST NOSE ON EARTH Senior Member SheldonCooper's Avatar
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    Don't bother doing the math like this compared to client description It's a bit different setup in the database. Some things will work compared to common sense, some things are just differently setup in server files and "truth bending" introduced to player via client :P

  10. #10
    SuperSin Senior Member JayClaiba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheldonCooper View Post
    Don't bother doing the math like this compared to client description It's a bit different setup in the database. Some things will work compared to common sense, some things are just differently setup in server files and "truth bending" introduced to player via client :P
    To be honest I'm still doubtful it's 10% dd reduction. Maybe 10% damage increase to daggers/bows, similar to how matchless (the passive master skill) gives 15% damage reduction.

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