About Isiloon and FearFactor (Diez)

[P4rthen0n]

From what i understood here, this is how it goes:

- Hakan / Lordofblablabla style => lure it to a specific place in the floor that changes the way Isiloon was supposed to act ending up not attacking etc etc. This is clearly BUG !

- Praetorian/FearFactor style => Attack from far away so isiloon only far attacks you, just like what ppl used to do with Dreadmares. Nothing wrong. Warriors could attack it with just skill from a bit far and only get hit by the aoe, which is 100% normal. BUT if they use R attack they'll get too close to Isiloon/Dreadmares and therefore they get hit by the melee attack instead. All you gotta do is not use R attack, not because it will "bug it" but because if you do use it you'll get in range of Isiloon's melee attack!
Attack from far and Isiloon and Dreadmares will attack you from far as well. NO BUG HERE !
I'm not sure but i think Atross and Atilla do the same thing. If so, never heard anyone get banned for that nor did i see anyone complaining about it. Why would it be normal to do in an Atross or Attila but if you do it to Isiloon then it gets banable ? Makes no sense to me.

- What Devile is saying => get mages to attack from far (which will make Isiloon range attack them) and then get some melees to attack Isiloon with just skill (no R attack at all !). This way melees will NEVER get hit by Isiloon no matter what distance from Isiloon they are. This would be an obvious bug, it doesn't matter if mages or archers are attacking it, as long as a mob does NEVER in a million times hit back at least once this is obvious bug abuse.


I can't see how doing isiloon like it was a Dreadmare is bug abusing. In fact, it doesn't even make sense because ISILOON IS USING IT'S RANGED ATTACK LIKE IT WAS SUPPOSED TO !!
If you wanna complain, complain to programers or whatever to increase Isiloon's close attack range, or increase it's ranged attack or just straight remove it's ranged attack.


Anyway it seems to me that Devile's way is how FearFactor do it, just that Devile didn't quite understand the how to (either that or there's something missing in what resurecter explained).

ps: someone from Tioc posted a short movie of their clan doing Isiloon and you can see Isiloon going after the mages at one point. Why doesn't it go after the mages anymore ? Maybe this is where the trick is.

[dorpwn]

no... i did not mean ice only u can lure it with fire too but it can out run u and kill u before u reach the spot u wanna lure it to in order to start it

[TunaFishyMe]

Ive only seen picture and servants. but I never examined her feet.

[phantomlink]

when we tried it a few times in 8ball, we only had like 4 or 5 mages, and even then they dragged Isiloon away from the melee's and they would get hit by the range attacks and if the melee's didnt get it's attention fast enough the melee blow to a paper mage ><

[TunaFishyMe]

Mobs cannot walk through people right? Insteaed of all attacking from one side, why dont you surround it?

[Speed of Dark]

Originally posted by ID4N
did k2 changed isiloon? about almost a year ago when we (MNI) did isiloon all the melees comboed her and mages party ranged her, most of the time she stood still in the same spot attacking the melees but sometimes when a mage got her agroed she used to run to his spot and attack him with her melee dmg, i might be wrong since it was a year ago so i dun quite remember.... *
anyway bug or not, MNI's way > all * and thats how isiloon should be done.

U had just ctrl+c, ctrl+v from msn? :lol:

[phantomlink]

Yes they can

[ID4N]

mobs can walk through ppl :mellow:

[TunaFishyMe]

mobs in eslant can, but im not so sure about mobs in abyss. I remember not being able to walk through a servant...not sure if he can walk through me. I know I cant walk through black widows

[P4rthen0n]

Originally posted by TunaFishyMe
Mobs cannot walk through people right? *Insteaed of all attacking from one side, why dont you surround it?

Exactly, that's why Tez said that all mages were "pilled up". If you pile up the melees in the same place too, it probably won't move towards anyone and will keep standing in the same place aoeing only.

[ID4N]

u cant walk through em but they can walk thorugh u.

[Rentzusuken]

So, being the moron that I inevitably have to be, I will need to get some answers from someone with common sense:

1) Is it common sense that K2 intended for the manipulation of programmed animations to be circumvented and termed "combo"?

2) Is it common sense that everything in this game attacks only within it's range as programmed?

The intentions of programmers can't be accurately gauged when you consider these two conflicting ideas. If they wanted to cancel animations, why not preclude them and save time with coding, drafting, colouring, and animating them? If they wanted Isiloon to beat the shit out of you relentlessly with her melee attacks, why give her a ranged one? As it was said before, the use of combo was considered "bug abuse", but was finally accepted for the "strategy" that it is. So with this new "strategy", it is immediately labled as a bug with no room for acceptance? Does this not more closely fit the programming than the cancellation of animations via comboing?

You say there is nothing wrong wtih R-hitting a mob, but choosing not to do it on certain mobs is sacrilege...why? I could shoot at a tank with my handgun and get fucked up in real short order, or I can blast the bastard from a mile away before it picks me up to range and kill me. Same principle, is it not?

The AI code is not necessarily wrong, but perhaps too short-sighted. Let's face the facts here: programming by nature is static and humans are dynamic by their nature. That's why you have to do "hacks" to the formatting of this very board to get the results you want. That's why you choose to combo instead of rely upon spammable skills. That's why we have technological advances: because people find different ways to do things. If K2 have to go to the programmers on this, it's blatantly obvious that Isiloon will be found to only use a melee attack within a predescribed range. Whether this behaviour will be changed or not is up to them and as we have seen from K2, will not be patched any time soon.

From what I understand, Isiloon does indeed attack when she is attacked and does not diverge from the behaviour of any other mob within the game. The difference is that she has ranged and melee attacks whereas most other mobs do not. However, the ones that do exhibit the same behaviour.

[Tez/Aja]

Originally posted by P4rthen0n+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(P4rthen0n)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-TunaFishyMe

Mobs cannot walk through people right? *Insteaed of all attacking from one side, why dont you surround it?

Exactly, that's why Tez said that all mages were "pilled up". If you pile up the melees in the same place too, it probably won't move towards anyone and will keep standing in the same place aoeing only.[/b]

yes this is what i said....all mages must stand on top of each other so it dont move...if mages are spread out it will come get u and ownt u

[Codex]

it seems this arguement has reached a dead end.

this thread includes both sides views.
anyone can read it through and make up his own mind.

when the programmers come see how we do it, they'll decide if this is within the programming lines or not.

i'll post what the programmers say even if they decide its a bug, but i think they are kinda busy with the ice age now so i dont think i'll hear from kotoko any time soon.

[Devile]

Rent, go down there and hit it in every possible way u know. It will certainly hit u.

The ppl abussing it, do it in a certain way they dont get hit for much or dont get hit at all. And that is the only boss in this game that reacts that way. Being the strongest one, it makes not sense it was intentionally "coded" that way. I took it plenty of times and every single time it hit me more than 4 times for over 2K and it moved all over the floor, even with 2 full parties of mages and 2 melees. Now ppl found a "tactic" to make it be stupidly easy.

Combo is a bug indeed, but it was decided to be legal since it brought more depth to the game. U see more depth here or any benefit on making an uber strong boss stupidly easy to kill? Just wondering. Might aswell ask for all bosses to act like this so u can take them with lvl40 chars.

The game evolves, I can understand that, but Isiloon clearly unbalances the game since its drop rate is extremely high. Letting ppl bug it in a way they dont even get hit is way wrong. U see human clans that were abussing this for months and even mages have Chitin Shields. U also think that's right?

Your arguments might apply to many other bugs that at the end are helpful and pretty much accepted and used by everyone. STR gear, lupine eyes, etc. I agree with u. But can u honestly agree to letting this boss be like this? What about forgotten temple? what deadguy and CZ towers? what about duping?

How can we tell all those were intentions of the programmers or just mistakes? Without an official answer, only common sense lets us see the difference.