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About Isiloon and FearFactor (Diez)

This is a discussion on About Isiloon and FearFactor (Diez) within the General Chat forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; Devile i remember long long time ago discussion about dreadmares some mages were accused of abusing because it did only ...
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  1. #106
    resurecter
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    Devile i remember long long time ago discussion about dreadmares
    some mages were accused of abusing because it did only range attack them
    full mage party +1 buffer killed them easily

    remember you telling its not a bug the monster attack that way
    so whats the difference to isiloon??
    get drainers many many mages and few priests and its the same

  2. #107
    h4x0r Admin Devile's Avatar
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    Try all bosses with every single "tactic" was mentioned here and tell me what happens.

    Attila: Does it hit u tanking? Does it hit u if u combo or not? Does it hit u ranged if u move away from it ? Does it hit u if u use mages? Does it move if u run? Does it hit if all mages are on the same place or spread?

    Talos: Does it hit u tanking? Does it hit u if u combo or not? Does it hit u ranged if u move away from it ? Does it hit u if u use mages? Does it move if u run? Does it hit if all mages are on the same place or spread?

    Snake Queen: Does it hit u tanking? Does it hit u if u combo or not? Does it hit u ranged if u move away from it ? Does it hit u if u use mages? Does it move if u run? Does it hit if all mages are on the same place or spread?

    Troll King: Does it hit u tanking? Does it hit u if u combo or not? (since it doesnt have a range attack) Does it chases u if u hit and move away from it ? Does it hit u if u use mages? Does it move if u run? Does it hit if all mages are on the same place or spread?

    If the answer is YES to all. WHY THE FUCK ISILOON DOESNT DO THE SAME when u do the same things? Maybe that "tactic" is actually a bug. Nothing wrong with ranging a Isiloon, problem starts when melees hit and Isiloon doesnt hit back.

    About Dreadmares. If u go close to it and melee, does the Dreadmare hit u back? YES.

    Anyway, got bored of this subject. If u wanna keep buggin that boss, fine, but dont blame the turks or any cheater in this game for this. Same happened with KoM. ppl bitching about babashoping and then legit players buying dupes from him. Cheaters are not the only ppl killing the game as u can see.

  3. #108
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    devile,
    you seem to think we and LOTH did isiloon the same,
    well we didnt, what LOTH did is to lure it to a bugged spot then sleep it, then he would shout 3 2 1 and everyone starting tanking it and comboing it like crazy using R skills R R skills everything they have, the isiloon didnt melee them despite they were close to her and comboed her and R and everything all she did is use her poison thats a bug.

    what we do is a tactic, we make sure we get hit MAINLY by the poison cuz the mages agro it, i can assure you its NOT ONLY using RANGE attacks it is ALSO using its MELEE attack on the warriors, just not as often.

    and you seem to mention common sense alot, well that is a subjective term, everyone have their own common sense. yours tells you its wrong, mine tells me its right.

    you also complain about how its wrong its the hardest boss yet we kill it easily, well in the bible there is a story about david and goliath. david managed to kill goliath with a singe sling shot to the forehead, david knew what he had to do to defeat goliath, he knew he couldnt beat him how everyone would expect him. he hit him where goliath is most sensitive.
    same goes for the story about achilles hill.

    as tuna said:
    a game has more dimensions if you are able to find different ways to kill the boss as long as its within the programming lines.

    remember that a man is innocent until proven otherwise.
    same goes for this thing,
    this is not a bug until proven otherwise.

  4. #109
    Senior Member Shurt's Avatar
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    I don't understand whats so difficult to understand about this. Isiloon can drop Iron Necklaces, do most of you tank SQ on pots? (I understand some lvl 70 rogues might be able to, just using it as an example) If you can't tank SQ on pots, why should you be able to tank Isiloon on pots when her drops are so valuable.

    The drops of isiloon can easily change a poorly equipped player into one of the best equipped players in a short amount of time. Does that sound like its supposed to be killed with pots to you? If so, then with you logic, duping would be rationalized. Or macroing, or most other cheating. Why? Because it does the same thing isiloon does if you tank it on pots as duping/macroing does. It gets you "better" at the game faster then normal players. Even if its a bug in the programming, then it should be declared a bug throughout until its fixed. (So it should be a permanant bug for K2 obviously)

    Back when MNI (My Name Is for those of you who're new) and Apocalypse were doing Isiloon, i can tell you we did it the hard way every single time. A party of melee's tanking it on 1 1920 apiece while the mages spam DoT's from behind. In my opinion, its just like copping out of doing the work if you "bug" isiloon to only attack you with her AoE, seeing as you would only need like 2 priests at the most to kill it, while we needed 5++.

  5. #110
    P4rthen0n
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    Originally posted by Devile

    About Dreadmares. If u go close to it and melee, does the Dreadmare hit u back? YES.
    A warrior with a spear (2.0 range) could just bind itand then keep getting closer and closer until his SD/HS got in range to attack. You could keep SDing the Dreadmare as long as you wanted, it would just range attack the warrior.
    In fact, you didn't even need a raptor. I once saw a mage blading a Dreadmare 4 or 5 times in a row and the Dreadmare kept ranging him.
    Notice that "hit back" does not have to be a melee attack.

    The point is there's an obvious diference in being ranged because you lured Isiloon to a specific bugged spot in the map (what hakan and lordofhumans did) or being ranged because you're not close enough to be melee'd (what praetorians and fearfactor did).

  6. #111
    Rentzusuken
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    My questions are non-biased and looking at it from all angles. If it wouldn't be dead by the time I got down there I would take my mage down there and see what happens. Maybe I'll go help one of these other clans do it so I can see for myself. The assertion that it is the only boss that behaves like this must take into consideration that this is also the only boss with both melee and ranged attacks. From a mob perspective, it reacts like others with both attack types as far as has been written here by the people who do it. I know from my previous experience that her ranged attacks are pottable if she is using them on more than one person, but being the only mage effectively using DOT, I required a healer.

    My point is that people got huffy over the bug known as combo, and people are now getting huffy over this one. Not all bosses are stupidly hard just for the hell of it. In most console games, a boss can be relatively hard to beat with conventional means, but some strategy and variance can make it a task where you don't even get touched. A human brain thinks up the pattern of attack for these bosses, would it not come to reason that another human brain would pick up on this pattern eventually and use it advantageously?

    Do I think it's right that all these humans have chitin shields? I could care less. Why should I waste energy on giving a fuck when K2 doesn't? Is it my place to get stressed out on their behalf? Is that what I paid money for, to get pissed off FOR them? ZUAHAHAHA, I think not baba. I'm not going to worry over people getting their items wiped for being "illegal" and then having the very same or better items a week later and then being judged to be "feasible" by game administration that admittedly hate the game itself.

    The depth you are looking for with this may very well be here because if it wasn't for the items afforded to people who "strategize" on taking Isiloon, these pussies like faaliyet and beefchunk would never set foot outside of human base and we all know that because we've seen it before they became opportunists.

    The other bugs listed may be of smaller consequence to you, but I see them all as equal. All they really net someone is a 1 and a 0 somewhere, nothing more. In my post for a pricecheck, I noted next to the mage +8/str gear that it was "for you bug abusers", demonstrating that I was aware of the fact that this was beyond the intended concept of str equipment when programmed, but relatively accepted nonetheless. Intentions with programming can't be judged because again it falls victim to the strict world of programming which cannot take into account every possible circumstance, but certain variables which are desirable at the time. For all we know the programmer(s) may very well wanted it to beat the shit out of anyone dumb enough to run up and molest her, but for someone willing to dance and wine and dine her, they would be given some ass with a chitin shield on the side.

    I'm just not willing to take up arms and persecute someone when the administrators themselves don't do it. Not that it matters because anything they can't figure out is removed anyways, so what you'll probably see happen is that Isiloon is taken out and duping comes back.

  7. #112
    Trii
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    holy shit stop writing so much.
    shurt made a good point, and i agree with him

  8. #113
    TunaFishyMe
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    Its difficult to understand becase you guys arent even talking about the same thing.

    Devile is talking about how LordofHumans are doing it and how they are bugging it.
    Pretty much everyone else is talking about how FearFactors are doing it.

  9. #114
    P4rthen0n
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    Originally posted by Shurt
    I don't understand whats so difficult to understand about this. Isiloon can drop Iron Necklaces, do most of you tank SQ on pots? (I understand some lvl 70 rogues might be able to, just using it as an example) If you can't tank SQ on pots, why should you be able to tank Isiloon on pots when her drops are so valuable. *

    The drops of isiloon can easily change a poorly equipped player into one of the best equipped players in a short amount of time. Does that sound like its supposed to be killed with pots to you? If so, then with you logic, duping would be rationalized. Or macroing, or most other cheating. Why? Because it does the same thing isiloon does if you tank it on pots as duping/macroing does. It gets you "better" at the game faster then normal players. Even if its a bug in the programming, then it should be declared a bug throughout until its fixed. (So it should be a permanant bug for K2 obviously)

    Back when MNI (My Name Is for those of you who're new) and Apocalypse were doing Isiloon, i can tell you we did it the hard way every single time. A party of melee's tanking it on 1 1920 apiece while the mages spam DoT's from behind. In my opinion, its just like copping out of doing the work if you "bug" isiloon to only attack you with her AoE, seeing as you would only need like 2 priests at the most to kill it, while we needed 5++.
    Then MNI were stronger than these guys, but not smarter.
    It doesn't matter how the first ones did Isiloon, what matters is if these guys are killing Isiloon in a legal way or not. It's like complaining because the first men made fire with 2 piece of wood while now all you have to do is light a match.
    At first TK was killed with lots of mages, now it's rarely done that way. Let's also all complain about TK the ex-harder boss in the game can be killed with 1 priest and 1 warrior (or even a rogue!) whitin a minute or two, when it was so much more dificult and time consuming at first. :rollseyes:

    If with this new tactic (which is only taking advantage of her ranged attack) Isiloon gets easier to kill, so be it. Only thing left to do is complaining to K2 and have them removing her ranged attack, it's not the first time things get changed because they got too easy (ex: tower damage increased).

  10. #115
    Senior Member Shurt's Avatar
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    Smarter? Because they used a "programming bug" in order to kill a boss? Like i said, how many of you take SQ on pots whenever you see her up? What about Talos or TK?

  11. #116
    Rentzusuken
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    Originally posted by Shurt
    Smarter? Because they used a "programming bug" in order to kill a boss? Like i said, how many of you take SQ on pots whenever you see her up? What about Talos or TK?
    I have a feeling that if you show them an SQ or TK or Talos that has ranged attacks instead of melee that they might provide evidence that it could be done.

  12. #117
    P4rthen0n
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    Originally posted by Shurt
    Smarter? Because they used a "programming bug" in order to kill a boss? Like i said, how many of you take SQ on pots whenever you see her up? What about Talos or TK?
    Programing bug ? Isiloon attacks in 2 ways, one of them hits WAY less than the other one.They adapted themselves so that Isiloon only (or mainly) does the lower hits. I call them smarter.

    Isiloon was made to have 2 diferent attacks, otherwise one of them wouldn't even be there. Unless you consider a "programing bug" every time she chooses to do 1 of them, i fail to see your point (considering Praetorians/FearFactors way). It's not like they relog or tp to wherever or follow a certain procedure apart from not getting too close to it when attacking.


    Also, like Rentzusuken said, comparing a 1-attack-mode-only mob with a 2-attack-mode-mob doesn't make much sense. the closest mob to Isiloon concerning attack pattern is Dreadmare and back then everyone agreed it was a smart and alternative way to kill it.

  13. #118
    h4x0r Admin Devile's Avatar
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    Doesnt matter how u do it as far as the mob behaves like it should. If do it with mages or melees, as far as the mob hits u back, fine. I'm not talking about FearFactor. I have no idea how they do it, but if they make Isiloon not move at all or dont hit melee at all, then its a bug abuse.

    Attila is a boss that have similar attacks to Isiloon. AoE that hits everyone, Magic ranged that hits ranged and Melee. Doesn't matter how u hit it, with how many or where they are positioned, it will always attack melee to the ones close and ranged to the ppl that hit ranged. From all the long list of Bosses, from DT to Samma, SQ, Talos, TK, etc. none will ever stop attacking melees whatever u do and none wont chase u if even if u ice it (sure, will move less, but move afterall). If Isiloon does something different cause u dont use R, stack mages or use any trick, tactic or whatever u call it, then something is going on. Either the map or the mob are bugged and ppl are exploiting that.

    Yes, players learned and now they take bosses in a smarter way. But do this "change" make the players not take damage from the boss? Is just a matter of style, yet the end is the same. U hit a mob, it hits u back and u get healed. After a while, mob dies and u get your drop. No matter what or how u do it, that has NEVER changed in this game. From the long list of Bosses, none behave different, yet some ppl see its "ok" that the highest mob in this game can easily be killed with just 720HP pots.

    Even if u find a mob that actually behaves like this, does the impact of abussing that is remotely compared to the impact of doing the same with Isiloon? Impact is way bigger with Isiloon. We can't compare using STR gear to carry more pots with duping, or using combo with macroing. Same goes to bugging Isiloon on a daily basis to get insane amount of uber uniques.

    If u take it the right way were it attacks the ppl infront of him with his melee attack (2k+ damage) and it actually moves arround a bit, excellent. But if u go there and make Isiloon get stuck in some odd place, never moves and just hits for 500 damage max even to melees, then u are clearly bug abussing it.

  14. #119
    kenpai
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    Ill say it again, nothing wrong with tactics, mobs that can get killed by aoe, maybe some day there will be a boss that can only be killed by chickens or full int priests. Using an error on the map is obvious bug abuse. Using the low dmg range attack of isiloon is questiobable, because the fact that it uses range attack could be intentional. Then again the amount of dmg it does is rediculously low. I feel it is not in the spirit of the game to take isiloon down this way, because it smells fishy.

    Close Isiloon floor please, increase aoe damage (Isnt it the Volcanic Rock that has a nasty reaction to mage attacks, something more like that), make it a challenge again to take down and enjoy wjat ever it drops. Then open the floor again.

    * imagine Fire Drake being bugged like that and a party of lvl 60's take it down, while potting.. rediculous.

  15. #120
    P4rthen0n
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    Originally posted by Devile
    Yes, players learned and now they take bosses in a smarter way. But do this "change" make the players not take damage from the boss? Is just a matter of style, yet the end is the same. U hit a mob, it hits u back and u get healed. After a while, mob dies and u get your drop. No matter what or how u do it, that has NEVER changed in this game. From the long list of Bosses, none behave different, yet some ppl see its "ok" that the highest mob in this game can easily be killed with just 720HP pots.
    Isiloon hits back, but with aoe attack.

    The problem is that Isiloon will only follow you up to a certain point as you know and then it'll aoe you. If you stand still, Isiloon will stand still aoeing you. It won't get close enough to use it's melee attack. Another problem is that a simple raptor has a bigger range than Isiloon's melee attack. It's thanks to this 2 things Fear Factor kill it in a much easier way.
    The thing about R attack is really simple. If you R attack, your char must be really close to the mob you're hitting, when it comes to Isiloon, if you R attack it means you're inevitably within it's melee range. So the way to avoid being melee'd by Isiloon but still hit it as a warrior, is JUST sd or hs it all the way from as far away as possible. It's not a bug, it's taking advantage of weapons like raptor or glave that have a big range (even tho it's been said some times already by some Fear Factor members that Isiloon still uses it's melee attack sometimes, but rarely).

    About the other turks, it's obvious that using a map bug makes it illegal.

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