Bugs, Cheaters and Fantasyscapes

[hongkongfury]

Well perhaps bugs and cheaters connotate provoke more "negative" response than fantasy. However "bugs" and "cheaters" and are all part of the fantasy... after all online worlds are fantastic worlds.

The general philosophy i see happening is that "bugs" and "cheaters" are seen as extensions of the original fantasy world... therefore they do not belong there.

However there are arguments that can be made against this, most notably that if this extension (i.e. 3rd party tools) is deemed "wrong" because it incites an unfavourable circumstance... the next logical step is too look into the original game design.

If you apply the same reasoning you will find there are several complaints to be made about knight online that are intrinsic to the knight online world- hacks or no hacks... because arguably "hacks" and "cheating" are just symptoms of a game design that emulates this ontologically

An example which illustrates this is the experience system... simply put it is unhealthy because the amount of time and effort spent warrants dissacociation from the "real world", but ensures profit.

The fact is online games are not democratic... you have little input in the structure of the online game... you are essentially a pawn limited functionally by design... and third tool use simply highlights this.

Well so what?

The idea is that k2 only gives a fuck about cheaters because it hurts theyre pockets in the long run... simply because hackers dont make for good long term investment.

P.S Bugs are not always bad i.e. "Combo".

And "cheating" is not always vicous, ever heard of robin hood???

...So what do you think, is "cheating" ethical or unethical?

[Helseth]

yes i mean no, wait i'm confused, no wait maybe im not

[LightInTheStar]

let the game makers decide the rules , play a game as a game ..... ^_^
hackers/crackers are not robin hood, they have their personal gains ( when they hack accounts , use their tools to load key loggers etc)

[C4pt4iN]

Robin hood steals from the rich, gives it to the poor. Cheaters steals from the rich, gives it to themself.

So my answer to your question: Cheating is unethical.

PS: Dont mix such bug as "combo" with the modern bugs, the combo bug has been discussed by GMs and developers many years ago, and agreed it to remain legal, since it brings great impact to the game.

[MeeP]

Well perhaps bugs and cheaters connotate provoke more "negative" response than fantasy. However "bugs" and "cheaters" and are all part of the fantasy... after all online worlds are fantastic worlds.

The general philosophy i see happening is that "bugs" and "cheaters" are seen as extensions of the original fantasy world... therefore they do not belong there.

However there are arguments that can be made against this, most notably that if this extension (i.e. 3rd party tools) is deemed "wrong" because it incites an unfavourable circumstance... the next logical step is too look into the original game design.

If you apply the same reasoning you will find there are several complaints to be made about knight online that are intrinsic to the knight online world- hacks or no hacks... because arguably "hacks" and "cheating" are just symptoms of a game design that emulates this ontologically

An example which illustrates this is the experience system... simply put it is unhealthy because the amount of time and effort spent warrants dissacociation from the "real world", but ensures profit.

The fact is online games are not democratic... you have little input in the structure of the online game... you are essentially a pawn limited functionally by design... and third tool use simply highlights this.

Well so what?

The idea is that k2 only gives a fuck about cheaters because it hurts theyre pockets in the long run... simply because hackers dont make for good long term investment.

P.S Bugs are not always bad i.e. "Combo".

And "cheating" is not always vicous, ever heard of robin hood???

...So what do you think, is "cheating" ethical or unethical?[/b]

Are you asking something or talking to yourself?

Its a game, what ethics does one expect from 10 year old kids.

[speedkill]

cheating is lame. if every high lvl (80+) player would be using hacks nobody would be able to gain np cuz they are all immortal.
Ko is a perfectly balanced pvp game and cheating ruins this balance. I dont even care anymore when people koxp for xp, i just want them to stop using it in pvp cuz it ruins the game.

However, i admit i used to be a kosper back from 2005 - beginning 2007. Now i have lots of fully legit characters including my current 100% legit assassin. There was one litle difference: my current char has platinum and pus stuff. back in the kosp days i relied on pocket money so i couldnt afford to pay for ko.

The reason why it was so attractive back then and now still is because people with real money have insane advantages over those who dont (all young players). These advantages wich i buy too ( platinum, power up store) , makes us pay2play players a lot less likely to cheat cuz we dont wanna loose all money put into it, and on the other hand. the free to play players, and especially younger people who are unable to gain these advantages in any possible way will use cheats instead so they are able to compete. With the new lvl cap and all those insane items wich are found on every server, it's the only way to stand a chance for them.

I think they should remove pathos gloves and valkyrie/gryphon blablabla from the power up store, cap items at +8 and uniques at +1 or +2. new players should be able to recieve money more easily.

Koxp should be blocked with a good anti cheat prog. Once people who dont pay premium / use pus / babashop (no i'm not a babashopper) stand a decent chance too it will be a lot less likely that koxp will come back with a bypass. and if it will, a lot less people will use it.

[hongkongfury]

Well meep are you a ten year old kid?

Im using robin hood as a case study, but not as an analogy.

Lets say that "cheating" is defined as using some means to advance yourself over other players; you could also include that it is part of the original game design.

Now compare this dichtomy of original game design[first party] verse third party game design with the free2play system.

You have the original game design (In Game) landscape, the way things work so to speak. Then if you introduce hack tools you can manipulate the way the game works, the original game design... so the player goes from operating within the structure to operating outside of this. If we wish we can derive some implication of an abstract idea like virtue or goodness i.e. "Legit" players are players of goodness.

However compare this with the free2play system and you will see the same matter.

The constitutional position of a player or avatar is as a "free user". The constitutional position is operating completly within the game design. But as the game design and player design (ontology ) meet incompatible goals become aparent, and measures such as hack tool use, Power Up Store Items, Premiums etc are used to enhance gratification and status.

Essentially "paying" users and "cheaters" have this same artificial influence within the game... neither is part of the fantasyscape. It is part of the SYSTEM, but it is not intrinsic to the game- so the differentiation is made between a "natural" and "artificial" phoenomenon within game.

It is unfair that hacks are used to operate above, beyond or outside game design. Similarly it is not fair to do the same thing within the institutional system (premiums, PUS item).

Gold bar purchasing, and babashopping would be included here.

Essentially the only "legit" players are free users, which i was for 3/4 years of my time in knight online.

So whats my point?

TL/DR- The only "Legit" players are free users, if you buy premiums or knight cash you are a cheater; just a cheater sanctioned by k2 (which is not the most virtous company).

[DrUnKeNmAsTeR]

Cheaters don't play the game, they just control the game

[hongkongfury]

Cheaters don't play the game, they just control the game[/b]

Would you agree or disagree that k2 is the ultamute controller?

Ive said before computer games are autocratic... considering many of us live in democratic societies this does go against the norm of "real life". Players have very little creative input, and 3rd party tool use in many ways is a means to go against this grain.

FOR INSTANCE= Ventrilo.

This is a third party tool, there is no in game voice chat within the original game design... so users have taken their own intiative and modified the experience using a 3rd party tool... ya dig?

[orko]

FOR INSTANCE= Ventrilo.

This is a third party tool, there is no in game voice chat within the original game design... so users have taken their own intiative and modified the experience using a 3rd party tool... ya dig?[/b]

You are death wrong, ventrilo only gives you what u would have if u were in a lan party, verbal comunication. Its not a tool because its not directly linked to it, it does not modify or interact with the game/program. 3rd party tools do interact with the game giving you an unfair advantage over other players, things that shouldnt be happening. So, when u say 3rd party tools are part of the original desing, you are DEATH WRONG.

ya dig? are u black ? Im almost sure ur white as the milk and have some serious personality issues.

[LightInTheStar]

You are death wrong, ventrilo only gives you what u would have if u were in a lan party, verbal comunication. Its not a tool because its not directly linked to it, it does not modify or interact with the game/program. 3rd party tools do interact with the game giving you an unfair advantage over other players, things that shouldnt be happening. So, when u say 3rd party tools are part of the original desing, you are DEATH WRONG.[/b]

+1
vent is like all ur clan are on phone
something separate from ur game client
is surfing the web while playing , or having a web browser open illegal too..

[MeeP]

Well meep are you a ten year old kid?[/b]

No, im nine, get what im saying?

[wiseman]

lol This needs to be closed. Just Blabbering on about everything bein [3rd party tool] Probably because he got banned for cheating or something and he came on here for support thinking he was "wrongfully" banned.

[Speed_King]

Lets say that "cheating" is defined as using some means to advance yourself over other players; you could also include that it is part of the original game design.[/b]

I think you are operating with a flawed definition of 'cheating' and it makes the rest of your reasoning in your post equally flawed. If me and my friends are practicing our combos in the arena, thus "using some means to advance [ourselves] over other players", I would not say that we are cheating, although on your definition we are. (A kind of reductio argument.)

Also, if you reach a conclusion where the only 'legit' people are those who who do not pay for premium (or for things in the PUS, or other items sanctioned by K2), I think you should question, rather than accepting, that conclusion.

What is or is not cheating (i.e., the practice of it and not the meaning of the concept) is in the first instance defined by K2 in the TOS/EULA. Then there is the community's say on various other aspects of this. Most people would say, I believe, that using Heavenfire is cheating but not all would say that 'babashopping' is cheating, although both are against the TOS/EULA.

[Stift]

if my attention span was long enough to read all these postst this would probally stil be really pointless.