Do You Want To Put Pressure on K2?

[Private]

their ToS can be changed at any time, and they retain the right to do whatever they like to your character without warning or reason. If you do not receive PUS items then you still don't have a case because your character is their property and they can use some bs excuse for it.[/b]

see wat 000000 doesn't know is the laws of california concerning online buisness are strict and if u recall back to when trinas were bugged and for months and months no one got trinas even if u sent 1000x tickets no one got them k2 broke a law everytime there tos could say the oposite of the law but it doesn't matter cuz some writing on a website doesn't mean shit to the state of california cuz the state has the power to shut that website down in seconds.

[Willows]

...what you obtained through the purchase is merely the right to use such Game Items and Knight Cash in the Game.[/b]

It never says that they're not responsible for providing you with the service or items you purchased. In fact, don't they acknowledge that the users do in fact purchase the rights to use something? If they don't recieve those rights, would not K2 be at fault and thereby liable?

As far as I can tell, it says you don't actually own the items (so you can't resell them) and that if you fuck it up (Spend all your knight cash on duration pots or anything like that) K2 doesn't have to give you shit back.

I'm also not a lawyer, but they seem to reserve the right to take your items and character away from you for no reason whatsoever, but they do NOT reserve the right to simply fail to deliver the goods, virtual or not.

[JesusBuffs]

Yea, if you purchase something with real cash, and they don't give you exactly what you paid for, they are in violation of law. You are not the owner of what you bought, but you are of the money. You can't just not deliver goods that are paid for, doesn't matter what your ToS says. They can ban your account, and you can't do anything about it, but anything that is dealing with your money can be dealt with. Either way, one day k2 will be dealt with. It will happen and won't be avoided unless k2 changes their shit. They can only go for so long until they fuck over the wrong person with the right evidence.

[redbluegreen44]

Serious question, you sue K2 and win the case meaning USKO would shut down completely?

[FireBird101]

Serious question, you sue K2 and win the case meaning USKO would shut down completely? [/b]

hopefully not

maybe go protest infront of their headquarters
ofcourse i wouldn't, i am to lazy O_O
and rather play the game then got hrough all this stuff

[Painf00l]

I say good luck to you...though from what i've read it looks like there covered mate. Its probably worth a go if you've got the time and money. The major dilemma in my opinion is to win against k2 means quiting, but that means leaving behind a whole bunch of friends and good times. :angry: Hence why i still play :P


peace

[C4pt4iN]

This is useless, there has been a couple similar topics like this before, and every single one of them failed. Also by such action wouldnt makes any positive results, in the worst case company goes down and everyone lose their precious char, happy? So for the ppl who still have a char and play this game would have something to lose/risk on this action.

About the server stability, I dont really see it as a problem, the server needs a weekly maintenance every week for stable performance, and it has been running smoothly the last few weeks, no server down and lags except the maintenance, which is needed. Any kind of software or hardware needs a restart sometimes.

About the TOS.. It cant be compared with other RL stuff, when u created ur char, u purposely AGREED their TOS which is like signed a contract. On the contract it clearly says whatever they can think of. Unlike other companies most ppl mentioned where u do whatever u want, coz those type of companies u guys mentioned have no contract u need to sign up to begin with.
Lemme give u an example, u goes to a store, and at the entrance u need to agree with certain things thats written on a paper, which says: Shopping at ur own risk, we are holding no responsibilities for ur life or any value items of urs. And if u are dumb enough to agree, and get killed or stolen inside the shopping place, then its ur own fault coz u agreed it in the begin. That scenario is practically impossible IRL, but thats pretty much how the situation looks for K2 or the virtual world. U agreed their rules at the beginning, they play the game.

Oh.. and the last thing I want to say, about the double triple or whatever times charges. That is pretty much ur own fault for clicking more than 1 time. If u buy a ticket and accidentally pressed the "buy" button twice, whos fault is it? STUPID MACHINE eh?

[TaDaaa]

see wat 000000 doesn't know is the laws of california concerning online buisness are strict and if u recall back to when trinas were bugged and for months and months no one got trinas even if u sent 1000x tickets no one got them k2 broke a law everytime there tos could say the oposite of the law but it doesn't matter cuz some writing on a website doesn't mean shit to the state of california cuz the state has the power to shut that website down in seconds.[/b]

Dude you keep bringing up Cali, post a newspaper article or site a source of that law actually being used!!! There are laws in states that say you cant have anything besides misonary sex, but people are not getting sued/arrested for doing 69's. I hope you understand that 50% of the laws on the books are nothing but political party BullShit!!

[razzy]

Dude you keep bringing up Cali, post a newspaper article or site a source of that law actually being used!!! There are laws in states that say you cant have anything besides misonary sex, but people are not getting sued/arrested for doing 69's. I hope you understand that 50% of the laws on the books are nothing but political party BullShit!![/b]

sad but true.

Also i doubt law enforcers of cali would waste their time on a computer game. That is unless we all go protest.

[firenewbie11]

Has it occurred to anyone that an official of KO could be reading this topic and figuring out a way to alter the TOS so that the good ideas of players will be stopped? It just a thought because if they are allowed to change their TOS at any given moment, then that would mean they could change it enough that there would be almost no way to actually beat them in a case of law. I think its possible because we all know how corrupt and deceiving KO is.

[ArminVanBuuren]

Dude you keep bringing up Cali, post a newspaper article or site a source of that law actually being used!!! There are laws in states that say you cant have anything besides misonary sex, but people are not getting sued/arrested for doing 69's. I hope you understand that 50% of the laws on the books are nothing but political party BullShit!![/b]

WTF???? no 69 allowed???? FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM

On topic again, there may be a slight chance on doing what you guys are thinking to do...but, from the report I read from the BBB, there have been some complaints about this, maybe one of those could lead to something, but there are like 300 or so listed so would be a matter of reading them all and try to see what can be done.

On the other hand, as C4pt4iN said, those actions would affect somehow the company, being the most affected the players...so if you are gonna try something, you have to know which are the limits you cannot go through...you want to take some legal action, but what do you exactly want to get? better server? better CS? Also you should consider that if you present some information and the company has any way to show you are wrong, this could be leading to nothing.

PS: OffTopic again...LeapFrog FTW!!! :P

[undefined]

i fucking hate politics

[Justin]

I hope this might help, sorry if the post is to big
No1 can say this is a GM for sure or a scammer but i'll let you guys decide

[runordie]

yup i have that guy added too

[:DOG:]

Yea, if you purchase something with real cash, and they don't give you exactly what you paid for, they are in violation of law. You are not the owner of what you bought, but you are of the money. You can't just not deliver goods that are paid for, doesn't matter what your ToS says. They can ban your account, and you can't do anything about it, but anything that is dealing with your money can be dealt with. Either way, one day k2 will be dealt with. It will happen and won't be avoided unless k2 changes their shit. They can only go for so long until they fuck over the wrong person with the right evidence.[/b]

Well I'm glad to see this has been a heated discussion, with great participation. If I could quote and reply to everyone's post I would, but damn, there's a lot of posts! Several people made some great arguments out there. A popular one is the ToS. Come on guys, can you think of a tougher hurdle to get over than the ToS? Although a ToS does present some protection to the business against malice players, it doesn't protect them from PAYING players that are not provided the services they are paying for.

Atm, they have never been on any consumer agencies' watch list. Their business strategy is unique also. Free to play, but most eventually pay. ToS protects them from nearly anything they want against the free players and they know this. They also know they're walking on a very thin line atm, with paying customers, hoping to keep this current threat to just a discussion. Don't worry, they're reading this forum too, which excites me. I've dealt with them in the past, in 2004 I think. I've paid them a visit and resolved my issue with them in person, no arguing, didn't have to fight them, they knew where they stood in the argument. I'm not trying to knock them out of business, unless my lawyer says we can, then I would consider it, but its HIGHLY doubtful. I'm trying to change their business model and reimburse paying players for their lost money with servers often being down or difficult to get on, no customer service being provided by email, mail or phone. People have rights in the US, especially in California.

Most people don't know how to exercise their rights. The public is never educated on how to do it. Agencies like the Better Business Bureau is created to warn you against bad business practices, but they have no power to exercise against it. I'm lucky, I live 5 minutes away from the state capital, so I have access to their free public law library and databases for research. I know how to stumble across the right information and I have smart legal friends.

Although I'm excited at the turnout on this topic, if you truly want to be proactive and honestly feel the same way as many other players feel about K2, then damn, give me something useful. Lets move this discussion into a productive motion. Stop the arguing. If you don't feel I don't have a chance, cool, everyone has their right to choose. K2 is a business, they don't have a right to choose...what is lawful or not, the city, state and federal court system does that.

I've received some pm's with some great helpful content and I hope I can get more. For me to pursue this, I need your help. For starters, in the letter to Eric, I listed what I need to start the case. I'll handle the legal side. I wish I could share with you what I know, but K2 is reading this forum.