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Gold Bar Deletion

This is a discussion on Gold Bar Deletion within the General Chat forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; Not necessarily, assuming that the full impact of the influx of gold bars into the KO game economy had not ...
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  1. #226
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    Not necessarily, assuming that the full impact of the influx of gold bars into the KO game economy had not been fully realized, prices were likely to continue to rise sharply as all these extra GB's continued to be felt in the KO economy. As such, prices may continue to rise for a while even with the 50% reduction of GB's, assuming there has been a vast injection of noah into the game, even after the wipe albeit at a slower rate now that the total noahs have been reduced by half.

    Since a number of people have obviously succeeded in duping a huge number of gold bars, and only lost about half of them, I would assume that this group is likely to have interest in continuing to quickly use these coins to make large purchases of in game items, or else sell off their GBs in large volume for profit (as one with 1000GB's is more likely to take less for each GB to realize a large profit at once, compared to numerous people with only a few GB's by comparison). They will be further spurred now by worry that continuing to hold onto their remaining vast supplies of GB's could result in further loss of them due to K2 actions. In addition, a short term demand spike for GB's is likely as many who had theirs wiped, rush to replace them in the inflated market.

    I'd expect the result to be a continued increase in noah float on the market in the near future, which should in turn lead to continued rising of item prices, with corresponding deflating of USD GB value.

    I base this on the supposition that K2's reduction of all accounts with at least 21GB's down to 10GB's means that more then half of accounts in game with more then 10GB's prior to the deletion, held duped GB's. To reduce all accounts with greater then 10GB's in the entire game, would make no sense otherwise. This means that despite the deletion, close to if not more then half of all GB's likely remains in the hand of GB dupers, and as a result the majority of in game noah continues to be in the hands of those with most incentive to move much of their noah quickly for profit. Which was, afterall, their entire point for massively duping the GBs in the first place.[/b]

    Your logic is as faulty as theirs. Most people have have maybe 50 gb tops. GB sellers have hundreds or thousands. So they lost half, it's a bigger impact on the small guys then it is the big guys. They just sell their GB for more now that there is less going around.

    Also, you have a lot of people who buy a ton of PUS and farm things like BF (I went 2x today). Making the gold off farming, pus, upgrades, buy and resell merch, etc, takes a lot of time and energy. It shows a that someone also spends more time in game and working at it, so they are punished more and that is just plain wrong. The best customers are the ones hurt the hardest, and they should be the ones K2 tries to please the most.

    In the short of it, K2 did a vast wipe because they are too lazy to go out and find the culprits who duped and used the gold program. If they took care of those abusers with time and ingenuity it would be solved with out hurting the masses. Again, the problem lies within the game. Exploitable bugs and hacks. The responsibility lies on the company, not the paying customers. In any other business if you did this to the people paying your bills, you would be done, period.

  2. #227
    Banned Senior Member assassinofthemist's Avatar
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    gb prices almost back down to their original prices 0_0

  3. #228
    Aus Rep Senior Member silentdj's Avatar
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    lesaths and lupus better drop to 200m!

  4. #229
    Senior Member sheewa1's Avatar
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    ...

    Also, you have a lot of people who buy a ton of PUS and farm things like BF (I went 2x today). Making the gold off farming, pus, upgrades, buy and resell merch, etc, takes a lot of time and energy. It shows a that someone also spends more time in game and working at it, so they are punished more and that is just plain wrong. The best customers are the ones hurt the hardest, and they should be the ones K2 tries to please the most.

    ...[/b]
    sad but true

  5. #230
    Senior Member 3ffusi0on's Avatar
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    hey hey now cheater can sell their GB for more $ !!!!!! this idee from K2 is very gooooodddddd :SS

    legit player are very hangry and cheater are very happy !!!!!

    gratz K2

  6. #231
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    well finally i got my reason for quiting
    i lost 70gb+

    and they delete everything that is over 10gb etc 12gb gets down to 10gb...

  7. #232
    AssassinStyle
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    Nice i was have 21gb at inn and lost 11gb ;SS

  8. #233
    Senior Member C4pt4iN's Avatar
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    How typical K2's way of cleaning the mess. "a certain group of people" as they applied it (a small amount of morons), had a little advantage by using cheap, fast, easy and relaxing method to gain some gold, while legit players worked their ass off with months of farming materials + spending time merchanting the stuffs, wiped out in 1 night, because they obviously cant or too lazy to find the source of the problem as ALWAYS. Thank god I didnt sold the very few stuff I farmed the few times I played, so I could say I had these items as insurance.. But its far from what I had lost from this stupid idea of K2's (in)justice action. To be very exact I lost 22GBs, I stored and saved those money for PvP supply and maybe 1 or 2 items if I need some, so for me it was like they took a few good uniques from me. Well, Ill get over it..

    About the equation someone mentioned.. I hardly find this equation or rather small price as some ppl call it, sure it (should) hurt the duper most, but in the end it wont. The main problem has been the same for years, THE SOURCE. As long the dupe is possible, it would be totally useless to wipe anything, the more they wipe the more they hurt the legit players. The dupe is always there, they just got some "ways" to deal with it. Technicially speaking, if they really can fix the dupe, then wipe wouldnt even be necessary, the everyday's consume will slowly drain the coins down faster than u can gain from looting, and market will stabilize itself to the ideal standard by the time.

    With this step they had done, I would never be safe to store any money anymore, or at least not such high amount in 1 place, and what next are us the legit players gonna get punished for? unbalanced lvls? mass uniques duped? etc..... This reminds me of a story from a japanese anime, a boy who was dumb, lazy and unlucky, so his partner used an equation bomb, so everyone are like him.. Yay! everybody are stupid like me, fairplay!

    In the end I agree with the people who mentioned about the ToS, its their game, they can do what they fuck they want with it.

  9. #234
    Senior Member Doshin's Avatar
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    Wasn't it just about a Year and Half ago or so That they did the same thing with all the Bifrost Uniques, Everyone paid for that crap too. It was hard then but got better on prices same with this deal.

  10. #235
    Senior Member LightInTheStar's Avatar
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    Wasn't it just about a Year and Half ago or so That they did the same thing with all the Bifrost Uniques, Everyone paid for that crap too. It was hard then but got better on prices same with this deal.[/b]
    tommorow they will make all raptor 9s into raptor 8s cause of xyz reason
    or maybe delvl everyone to 75 for another reason

    how can they justify doing something wrong again and again
    that bifrost thing was bad yes , but this is worse ppl mustve lost 100s of gbs
    what kind of solution is this

    look again , dupers still have half their coins

    +1 to dupers
    -1 to legits ( or +2 and -2 respectively including bifrost)

  11. #236
    Shane1911
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    Direct BBB link to complain about K2:

    http://www.la.bbb.org/businessreport.aspx?...anyid=100018034

  12. #237
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    Your logic is as faulty as theirs. Most people have have maybe 50 gb tops. GB sellers have hundreds or thousands. So they lost half, it's a bigger impact on the small guys then it is the big guys. They just sell their GB for more now that there is less going around.

    Also, you have a lot of people who buy a ton of PUS and farm things like BF (I went 2x today). Making the gold off farming, pus, upgrades, buy and resell merch, etc, takes a lot of time and energy. It shows a that someone also spends more time in game and working at it, so they are punished more and that is just plain wrong. The best customers are the ones hurt the hardest, and they should be the ones K2 tries to please the most.

    In the short of it, K2 did a vast wipe because they are too lazy to go out and find the culprits who duped and used the gold program. If they took care of those abusers with time and ingenuity it would be solved with out hurting the masses. Again, the problem lies within the game. Exploitable bugs and hacks. The responsibility lies on the company, not the paying customers. In any other business if you did this to the people paying your bills, you would be done, period.[/b]
    Huh? How was my logic flawed Rad, perhaps I am misunderstanding you. I am under the impression that of the people who hacked GB's, they are not all major GB selling companies. Assuming they are for the most part single players who got their hands on a leaked hack, what they do with their GB's is likely to be very different then a large GB company used to hoarding huge numbers of GBs and releasing them slowly into the market to optimize long term profit, not concerned with wipes by K2 as they can quickly replace them again through normal koxp farming means.

    My point was merely that if KO deleted all GB's on accounts over 10 GB's, they must have come to the conclusion that most accounts likely to be made liquid with this many GB's were duped recently. Why would KO erase all those GB's from everyone, if the amount of duped GB's in these accounts were the minority? Those few who took advantage of a program to dupe massive amounts of GB's at will got off really well. If I came into 1000's of free GB's in a week, who really gives a crap if KO took half of them away? My buying power remains immense just as it was before. I'd continue to have all these GB's to play with that I never had previously, and would likely be looking to get rid of most of them quickly for profit, buying up every decent item I could get my hands on/ and USD'ing all I could even at a reduced price, on the chance KO actually gets their shit together long term and starts checks logs to follow up their short term solution of simply deleting GBs across the board. Then I'd keep a decent reserve for when the market stabilizes down the road, in case they don't.

    Anyway, these people who took advantage of the hack to gain huge amount of coins still likely hold the main market share of KO noahs just as they did the last couple of weeks with simple deletion across the board, as the dupe was just recently patched against was it not? Therefore one would expect these same dupers to continue to flood the market with their massive amounts of GB's, and sell off the rest causing inflation to likely to continue upwards till they exhaust their supplies.

    As for most players who held GB's, they got screwed of course, did I say they didn't? I had 500 GBs at one time in the past, which I gathered together over six months of constant trading, farming etc. If I lost half of them at once I would be infuriated. It's way F'd up, the average player should not pay for K2's failure to secure their own game, having weeks or months of effort erased at a drop of the hat. But this is K2, they gold wiped before, bifrost wiped before, what do you expect?

  13. #238
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    Huh? How was my logic flawed Rad, perhaps I am misunderstanding you. I am under the impression that of the people who hacked GB's, they are not all major GB selling companies. Assuming they are for the most part single players who got their hands on a leaked hack, what they do with their GB's is likely to be very different then a large GB company used to hoarding huge numbers of GBs and releasing them slowly into the market to optimize long term profit, not concerned with wipes by K2 as they can quickly replace them again through normal koxp farming means.

    My point was merely that if KO deleted all GB's on accounts over 10 GB's, they must have come to the conclusion that most accounts likely to be made liquid with this many GB's were duped recently. Why would KO erase all those GB's from everyone, if the amount of duped GB's in these accounts were the minority? Those few who took advantage of a program to dupe massive amounts of GB's at will got off really well. If I came into 1000's of free GB's in a week, who really gives a crap if KO took half of them away? My buying power remains immense just as it was before. I'd continue to have all these GB's to play with that I never had previously, and would likely be looking to get rid of most of them quickly for profit, buying up every decent item I could get my hands on/ and USD'ing all I could even at a reduced price, on the chance KO actually gets their shit together long term and starts checks logs to follow up their short term solution of simply deleting GBs across the board. Then I'd keep a decent reserve for when the market stabilizes down the road, in case they don't.

    Anyway, these people who took advantage of the hack to gain huge amount of coins still likely hold the main market share of KO noahs just as they did the last couple of weeks with simple deletion across the board, as the dupe was just recently patched against was it not? Therefore one would expect these same dupers to continue to flood the market with their massive amounts of GB's, and sell off the rest causing inflation to likely to continue upwards till they exhaust their supplies.

    As for most players who held GB's, they got screwed of course, did I say they didn't? I had 500 GBs at one time in the past, which I gathered together over six months of constant trading, farming etc. If I lost half of them at once I would be infuriated. It's way F'd up, the average player should not pay for K2's failure to secure their own game, having weeks or months of effort erased at a drop of the hat. But this is K2, they gold wiped before, bifrost wiped before, what do you expect?[/b]

    You assume incorrectly again and as soon as I knew about both the bug and the hack I reported them to K2.

    That does not negate the fact that K2 has harmed their best customers. The ones who buy multiple prem and pus/ksc purchases to resell for coins.

    Most small time sellers were hurt but you keep throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because you have a small portion of people doing something, you can't harm the masses. If you have 5% of the population stealing. you don't lock up the other 95%.

    You obviously don't spend as much time farming as some of us do. Back when the BF first came out my entire clan went to BF at least, at least, at least 1-2 times a day. At the time, you could sell the hardest frag for 999,999,999. It didn't take long for us to make a lot of GB.

    If the company sets the rules and the rules are known, such as 21 GB per char and inn, then you can follow the rules and still excel. If you follow the rules and get your ass handed to you by the guys arbitrarily making the rules and changing them at whim, then you are more likely to not trust the rule making and not play or not follow the rules.

    I am not against finding the GB sellers and dupers and wiping THEIR gold. I think, like I stated you seem to have missed completely, it takes an effort and energy. And I don't think K2 wanted to work a little harder to save the masses the pain.

    It's K2's problem to fix the bugs, exploits and hacks. They are the ones who get paid by us, not the other way around. Service your customers and service your best customers, do not penalize them because you are unwilling to do the extra work it would require to find the real gold bar sellers.

    You see the difference? Businesses run off taking CARE of their customers. That is THE point.

    By using your logic and K2's, every time someone figures out a bug with coins, everyones coins should get wiped down to 10GB. That sir, is insane.

    When anyone finds a dupe, why doesn't K2 then wipe everyones items? They are both solutions to not fixing the bugs and holes in the game and punish everyone instead of just the ones doing it. And again, I do not agree at all.

  14. #239
    SillyHo
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    Even better, because there is so much KOXP now getting levels, if K2 follows its own logic, we will all lose 10 levels to "even it out". My bank char had coins on it from pre-KE. It would have been simple to see the acct has had 21 gb on it since, maybe march of 2005, but instead they blanket delete coins.

    Didnt think they were able to make me more unhappy with the game....

  15. #240
    D3stiny
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    the EULO and TOS are not set in stone as K2 would have us believe

    It would be interesting to see what would happen if people contested the provisions of these contracts on the grounds that they are unconscionable and on the grounds that the advertising material put out by the company is not reflected in the reality of the gaming experience

    Unconscionability is a term used in contract law to describe a defense against the enforcement of a contract based on the presence of terms unfair to one party. Such contracts can not be enforced on the grounds that one party took advantage of its superior bargaining power to insert provisions that make the agreement overwhelmingly favor its own interests.

    Eg account forgiveness

    Eg coin wipe

    Even though the law has been slow to catch up with the sale of virtual goods there have been cases lately where game companies have had their TOS and EULA challenged on these grounds, with out of court settlements

    if theres anyone out there who knows a bit about this pm me

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