Greetings Knight Online Community

[Speed_King]

If I were your thesis supervisor I would ask you to state your aim in a much clearer way. As it is now, it is totally unclear whether it is descriptive or normative research and what kind of tools you are going to use in order to support whatever it is that you are out to test/show.

Also, if you have already decided that you are going to bring down K2, why bother to ask what people think about them?

As you yourself say, there is a lot written already about MMORPGs. If you have read some of that literature (as I am sure you have, otherwise you wouldn't be so sure of what this kind kind of research can and cannot show...), you should perhaps use it as a point of departure for your own research.

Lastly, a word of advice. There are certain people on this forum who I am sure would assist you should you ask them. There are, however, far more who would take any opportunity to flame you for reasons only known to them. Try to find out who are willing to help and you will save youself alot of time and energy.

Cheers!

[Private]

like schrotti said well not really ... but focus your attention on their tos / eula and the laws in California concerning online practices such as k2

another would be there anti cheat efforts similar companies have had class action law suits for similar anti cheat programs concerning privacy

and don't listen to cama he's dumb

[sleven07]

Then you might as well read k2's ToS and EULA.[/b]

+1

that shit is off the hook. its fckin concrete

[Private]

+1

that shit is off the hook. its fckin concrete[/b]

it doesn't matter in the end law trumps tos / watever especially in a state like California

[Speed_King]

To the OP: I don't know what level of seriousness you are operating at but you might find this of interest:

http://gameconference2009.wordpress.com/

Click on 'Call for Papers' for more information about the conference.

Here is a little something from the CFP:

Ethical and Political Issues
What are the ethical responsibilities of game-makers in relation to individual gamers and society in
general? What role, if any, can games serve as a critical cultural corrective in relation to traditional
forms of media and communicative practices, for example in economy and politics? Also, what is
the nature of the ethical norms that apply within the gaming context, and what are the factors that
allow or delimit philosophical justifications of their application there or elsewhere?


I have myself been thinking of catching up on the literature and perhaps write something about the many aspects in which I consider K2 to be lacking in responsibility for their decisions. Everytime I start to think of possible ideas and angles, however, I'm reminded about how much frustration I actually felt as a player... I don't want to go there again. (If anyone is seriously interested in co-writing a paper, please do drop me a pm.)

Cheers again.

[hongkongfury]

To the OP: I don't know what level of seriousness you are operating at but you might find this of interest:

http://gameconference2009.wordpress.com/

Click on 'Call for Papers' for more information about the conference.

Here is a little something from the CFP:

Ethical and Political Issues
What are the ethical responsibilities of game-makers in relation to individual gamers and society in
general? What role, if any, can games serve as a critical cultural corrective in relation to traditional
forms of media and communicative practices, for example in economy and politics? Also, what is
the nature of the ethical norms that apply within the gaming context, and what are the factors that
allow or delimit philosophical justifications of their application there or elsewhere?
I have myself been thinking of catching up on the literature and perhaps write something about the many aspects in which I consider K2 to be lacking in responsibility for their decisions. Everytime I start to think of possible ideas and angles, however, I'm reminded about how much frustration I actually felt as a player... I don't want to go there again. (If anyone is seriously interested in co-writing a paper, please do drop me a pm.)

Cheers again.[/b]

Thanks alot of speed king, your contribution is a very constructive one.

Now there is always a serious issue within ethnography concerning ethnographic bias- of course if we treat the enviroment and players of an online game as "culture" then we encounter the same problem. This is why anthropoglogists generally study "other" cultures outside their own enculturation.

This of course presents a slight dillemia, as i have four years of knight online experience. This can be both a perceptive benefit, but also a negative bias in regards to the information recieved by participants. Which many of you have already pointed out, but im first and foremost a human being and i cannot always conduct myself perfectly.

Secondly there are a plethora of online game studies, books... academic journals even. The purpose of these is to discover co-relation patterns and determine their causality- this invloves concepts and phoenomenon, however it would be foolish of one to state or assume all cultures are synoamous... similarly although all "online games" draw similarity in that they are online games, the differences must also be acknowledged.

Therefore i believe research on the particular concepts and phoenomenons within knight online have merit despite extensive and intensive study on the matter of online games. Essentially knight online is what we call the "case study", and you would not expect or recieve the same complete results as a study World of Warcraft, CyberTown, Second Life, Lineage 2 etc.


Finally Speed King... you are correct that all research needs an appropriate research focus with the correct qualitative and quantitative methods.

However the research process is not linear... i need to conduct prelimenary research within both the knight online case study, and previous literature on online computer gaming before i have the adequate knowledge to narrow the scope of my research appropriatly.

Here is one the phoenomenons i have already encountered, which in some ways fits into the whole "cheater" dichotomy.

"Bugs"

It appears that a bug is a feature within the game that does not operate as originally intended. Often this is percieve as destructive to gameplay and quality of players existance in the online world. This phoenomenon also seems connected with the phoenomenon of "cheating/cheaters". Never the less a bug does not seem to always intrude on the percieved quality of the knight online gamers experience, however as a general rule it results in dissatisfaction. For example their is a "player inspired phoenomenon" (theres an official jargon for this in game research which i cannot recall) which players refer to as "combo", this is a bug but is considered to benefit the online gaming experience- particularly the "pvp" experience. Never the less when the virtual fantasyscape does not operate as intended it seems to be percieved negativly by the players within the knight online world.

Oh and of course i am using other means of making contact with participants... one of the advantages of having the experience within the online world is that i have alot of in game connections and contacts i can use for information. This is not the sole means i will use for making contact, and of course i will be looking around various fansitesd official site an for contacts and information... as the forums are an intracate part of the gaming experience.

And of course i have the difficult task of trying to get information off k2

[tuttzilla]

Well i have to say i skim read the first post thinking here we go again, another courageous soul wasting time and energy trying to make a difference. Then i read you're also from New Zealand and got interested all of a sudden and reread it properly, as i do love finding fellow New Zealanders over forums/games. Im quite interested in some of the things you're wishing to study so im willing to help in any way i can, whether you want to talk about the social dynamics of the game or anything.

Just trying to give u a slight flicker of hope amongst all the flamers who apparently got the same impression about what you're doing as i did to begin with..

Good luck :P

[SaNCTe]

Interesting topic for a thesis. Don't be discouraged by the numbers of skim-readers that didn't catch the whole point that you are conducting research, not trying to bring down an American publicly traded corporation.

As others have pointed out, there are better means of finding information on your study. This forum houses mostly numb minded twits. *see above replies*

OT: I, myself being a gamer since NES was introduced, hold a pretty strong stance for the ""virtual corporations" such as the k2 network, that are allowed to exist in the shadows of virtual reality." They've introduced a virtual environment that I can escape to every day I get off work, mingle with friends, forget the real stresses of life for a few hours a day. Some would say that gaming has negatively effected my life. Perhaps.

Perhaps I am content not being the "super achiever" that society tells me I need to strive for. Perhaps I love zoning out in front of a computer that I paid wayyy too much money on.

Now, I'm a grown ass man, with a good job, a house, and plenty of vagina. Appearently this evil corporation hasn't completed its intentions of ruining my life and sucking my bank account dry.

But on the contrary, I do know that there's folks out there that cannot handle the responsibilities of life, and gaming only contributes to that. Also, I know there's kids out there that could be doing more constructive things with there time like curing cancer, or designing a space craft that could successfully put a human on Mars.

But this is it. This is what countless generations of parents worked VERY hard for. A life where hard work isn't a means to survive. It's just a means to drive a nicer car. We live in the age of reaping the benefits of our forefathers.

Do I think my great-grandfather would invision me "playing" a female "mage" inside a virtual world where I slay Orcs? Fuck no. But I know he'd be content knowing that I could if I wanted to. =)

My point is - gaming (K2) isn't ruining the world, the world will do that to itself no doubt. Gaming simply lets us escape from it for a few hours a day. No reason to do research on it. (unless my monitor is gonna give me cancer)

[wawh]

i do not play knight online any longer[/b]

good, now leave these forums, get over it and enjoy something else

the actions you will be doing if any at all, are useless in any way you're trying

[hongkongfury]

good, now leave these forums, get over it and enjoy something else

the actions you will be doing if any at all, are useless in any way you're trying[/b]

How dare you... this is my life and my soverieghny (sp). You have no entitlement to be speaking in such a way to me or anybody else.

This may very well be your oppinion, and the way you conduct yourself in your life if you were to quit, but i do not.

EVEN if one is to make the argument computer games are completly for entertainment value, and research is of no merit in the context of online research, or any research... if you take the oppinion that knight online is good for entertainment then you must question the value of those who had a vested interest in creating the online world, if we are interested in the creation of something we are interested in researching it, that is fact.

So for them [k2] their motive may be purely monetary, but as a social scientist my main physically comprehensible reward is infact money, and it is not that this research will result in monetary gain... but certainly a social scientist reputation is a the greatest asset one has; and on that basis alone i can cite the antithesis of your argument.

P.S Based on preliminary research my focus will be on the "free2play" system and its co-relations.

[Shurt]

Interesting thesis. Out of curiosity, what are you researching this for? I assumed for your dissertation (assuming the graduate programs in New Zealand), but wanted to be sure. Anyway, as stated, don't be discouraged by a lot of the community here. By now, KO and K2 has turned the majority of people here extremely cynical. If I were you, I would focus the bulk of my research on the legal documentation that K2 has released (things like the ToS and EULA) and become quite intimate with them. Then, I would memorize California law pertaining to online activities. I don't know much about that, so I can't help much. Also, if you wanted to take it a step further, since you're majoring in social sciences, you can research things pertaining to the user-base of KO itself. Maybe even include articles such as the one claiming that Turkey was planning to effectively ban K2 from their country. While the article's main point was over a tax issue, it did discuss a bit about the fanatical response that K2 has received from Turkey, if I remember correctly.

Not being familiar with what exactly a social sciences major entails, that's about all I've got. Good luck with your thesis. Properly researched, it could turn out to be quite an interesting read.

To everyone else that flamed him: I don't think he's trying to change things. This topic doesn't have that feel of "Let's boycott premium for one month!!1!1!!!". I believe that, rather than trying to change things, he's researching why some companies end up this way and why the user-base adapts to and becomes content with the progressively crappier conditions, whereas companies like Blizzard strives to maintain a high level of user satisfaction. And for anyone who believes they weren't content, I pose one question to you: Why did you play so long? After the 2nd month or so with K2, it was quite obvious that no change was coming. Don't take it as an attack, I myself am guilty of it. We all kept playing because we adapted to, and became content with the fact that K2 was simply a horrible company running an amazing game. It happens.

[TopCat]

Interesting thesis. Out of curiosity, what are you researching this for? I assumed for your dissertation (assuming the graduate programs in New Zealand), but wanted to be sure. Anyway, as stated, don't be discouraged by a lot of the community here. By now, KO and K2 has turned the majority of people here extremely cynical. If I were you, I would focus the bulk of my research on the legal documentation that K2 has released (things like the ToS and EULA) and become quite intimate with them. Then, I would memorize California law pertaining to online activities. I don't know much about that, so I can't help much. Also, if you wanted to take it a step further, since you're majoring in social sciences, you can research things pertaining to the user-base of KO itself. Maybe even include articles such as the one claiming that Turkey was planning to effectively ban K2 from their country. While the article's main point was over a tax issue, it did discuss a bit about the fanatical response that K2 has received from Turkey, if I remember correctly.

Not being familiar with what exactly a social sciences major entails, that's about all I've got. Good luck with your thesis. Properly researched, it could turn out to be quite an interesting read.

To everyone else that flamed him: I don't think he's trying to change things. This topic doesn't have that feel of "Let's boycott premium for one month!!1!1!!!". I believe that, rather than trying to change things, he's researching why some companies end up this way and why the user-base adapts to and becomes content with the progressively crappier conditions, whereas companies like Blizzard strives to maintain a high level of user satisfaction. And for anyone who believes they weren't content, I pose one question to you: Why did you play so long? After the 2nd month or so with K2, it was quite obvious that no change was coming. Don't take it as an attack, I myself am guilty of it. We all kept playing because we adapted to, and became content with the fact that K2 was simply a horrible company running an amazing game. It happens.[/b]

Couldn`t agree more ..
We all are addicted to whatever crap they feed us and we even pay for it.. so ya man good luck on ur survey and wish u all the best nd do post here wat u come up with and i do also believe it will be quiet a nice read!

[Speed_King]

If I were you, I would focus the bulk of my research on the legal documentation that K2 has released (things like the ToS and EULA) and become quite intimate with them. Then, I would memorize California law pertaining to online activities.[/b]

I agree with this and what has been said previously in this post about TOS/EULA. I'm still not sure, however, what the aim and method(s) of the thesis is supposed to be. Out of curiosity, anyone know anything more concrete about TOS/EULA? I once had a look at KO's and compared them with that of Blizzard's/WoW's. It seems to be pretty standardized and it is surely a rather depressing read from the gamer's perspective. You truly realize just how little the companies are responsible for. Some companies do have a strong ethics though (K2 not included). Hm... I better not go on another rant here.

By the way, and this is my real question here, what happened to that guy who came here asking the members to come up with questions for the K2 executive? It must have been like a year and a half ago. As far as I can recall, he did manage to get some answers from someone, but then he just disappeared... I can't remember where he was from, so not sure how to search for the topic. Thought it might be of interest to the OP. Any of you guys know what I'm talking about?

[hongkongfury]

I know "Castalion" has done a few interviews?

But really social science entails geography, history, psychology, ethnology, ethnography, anthropology, anthrosophy, theosophy, philosophy, sociaology, political science, economics, law etc. It is really very broad, i focus on cultural science... so as stated previously "ethnography" or "measuring culture".

SO my research will not be on law, it will be on culture. The cultural implications of the free2play system. I am a very religous individual and believe that there is an underlying turth beneath all culture... this is theosophy/anthrosophy/metaphysics and this will also be reflected on in the research.

But although i am doing a masters and going for my doctorate also... that is a long way away, i am actually in my second year of my bachelors.

This is not for school or work, this is my hobbie lawl. (i have research proposals and ideas for many things)