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Interesting Hole in K2 TOS

This is a discussion on Interesting Hole in K2 TOS within the General Chat forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; After a frustrating war where hackers were running unchecked and my scrolls were not only being wasted, but dropped altogether ...
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  1. #1
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    After a frustrating war where hackers were running unchecked and my scrolls were not only being wasted, but dropped altogether by that lovely new hack, I decided to re-read the TOS. To my surprise, I think I found a hole that is large enough to possibly get somewhere with a real lawsuit.

    Now I know we have discussed this many times and we all know how iron-clad their TOS seems, but California has some interesting laws regarding implied warranties which also limits their ability to be held harmless. Our problem before was that their service is free and our premium is only to give us priority access and in-game benefits. However, we are purchasing scrolls to be used in game to give us buffs. These scrolls are intended to give us buffs and only be removed by a duff (even though the skill description doesn't even say this as an intended effect).

    OK, this is where the laws come in . . . Under the California Commercial Code and the Song Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, the buyer has a right to purchase scrolls that are fit to be used as intended. If they are not suitable for use and the consumer can show they have been harmed this causes a "breech of implied warranty". They are not allowed to limit their liability in these cases through a TOS.

    In short, if the scrolls cannot be used for the purpose intended we can seek remedy in court and not only have a leg to stand on, but alot of precident as we can compare these scrolls to consumer goods that are purchased yet do not function as intended.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Banned Senior Member
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    You didnt /Quit ko4life ?

  3. #3
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    meh...go get a hobby.


  4. #4
    wtf is juice? Senior Member trytankme's Avatar
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    Thoughts?[/b]
    Yeah, you've found a kinda good idea.. but doesn't mean much too me -.- altho, i know what you mean about todays war.

  5. #5
    wawh
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    so you're gonna put up a law suit just because your scrolls do not work?

    oh come on, im sure you can find something better lol




    evenso, the accounts and all in game items belong to them (yes even your kc) this means its still their problem, not yours if they're having a nice day they might refund the kc you lost on scrolls but other than that, lol

  6. #6
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    ah, but it doesn't matter whether they own the scrolls or not. they are a "service" that is not performing correctly.

    and once you open the door for a lawsuit you can go after punative damages as well as legal fees etc. and if you don't think $5 from 10,000 people is alot of money to k2 . . . think about the $100k+ it takes to defend a lawsuit like that.

    ask microsoft how they felt settling over the xbox live problems - and that was just server load.

    the point is their TOS isn't bulletproof as there are laws that counter the limiting of liability when a shoddy product is offered. the Song Beverly Consumer Warranty Act is actually California's version of the lemon law. the reason you use the scrolls as the focal point is the game itself is free.

    You didnt /Quit ko4life ?[/b]
    trying to . . .

  7. #7
    wawh
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    ah, but it doesn't matter whether they own the scrolls or not. they are a "service" that is not performing correctly.

    and once you open the door for a lawsuit you can go after punative damages as well as legal fees etc. and if you don't think $5 from 10,000 people is alot of money to k2 . . . think about the $100k+ it takes to defend a lawsuit like that.

    ask microsoft how they felt settling over the xbox live problems - and that was just server load.

    the point is their TOS isn't bulletproof as there are laws that counter the limiting of liability when a shoddy product is offered. the Song Beverly Consumer Warranty Act is actually California's version of the lemon law. the reason you use the scrolls as the focal point is the game itself is free.
    trying to . . .[/b]
    the only service you are paying for are connection time when servers are open and more exp and all the other benefits of premium...
    they dont promise no buggs or anything like that

    k2 is only offering a game that is free to play... you already got that, you dont have to pay... you're basicly donating and not telling them what to do other than giving the bonusses of premium (which you get)
    and btw their tos is near perfect to defend them from things like this, as you have nothing from them (everything belongs to them), maybe you can charge them on fraud or scamming but lol

    go ahead, try it, you won't gain nor will k2 lose something, but you will loose the money you invested in doing the lawsuit

  8. #8
    Phosgene
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    so because you are frustrated and down you gonna try and sue k2 for some shit no one ever thought about ?
    thats stupid , and its also stupid to think you can beat a company such as k2 in court .

  9. #9
    BJK
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    didnt get the point

  10. #10
    silverbuffer18
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    if they lose this case they will do everything to get you banned/hack, which wont take long

  11. #11
    Community Nazı Senior Member schrotti's Avatar
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    K2's ToS also states, that you should never file a law suit against them. :>

  12. #12
    KOK A.d.m.i.n Senior Member
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    The TOS also includes a part that says you may not sue them based on a claim that you "own" the items since you don't own them. I don't know how that "implied warranty" works but usually the "warranty" assumes that by buying the item you also become the owner. So you could only say that the service you have purchased (the function of the scrolls) is not working as intended. However on the same ground you could say that premium exp/coin bonus doesn't work as intended since all the spots where you could take advantage of your exp bonus are overrun by cheaters. I haven't seen a report of someone successfully suing k2, maybe because everyone lacks the ability or courage or k2 has well-established ways to fend off the attempts.

  13. #13
    thank mr. skeletal Senior Member XeroK's Avatar
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    You didnt /Quit ko4life ?[/b]

  14. #14
    Senior Member KillerJ's Avatar
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    The TOS also includes a part that says you may not sue them based on a claim that you "own" the items since you don't own them. I don't know how that "implied warranty" works but usually the "warranty" assumes that by buying the item you also become the owner. So you could only say that the service you have purchased (the function of the scrolls) is not working as intended. However on the same ground you could say that premium exp/coin bonus doesn't work as intended since all the spots where you could take advantage of your exp bonus are overrun by cheaters. I haven't seen a report of someone successfully suing k2, maybe because everyone lacks the ability or courage or k2 has well-established ways to fend off the attempts.[/b]
    The reason you've never heard a successful lawsuit is because companies usually buy it out and don't like to waste time in court.. He's got a good point but all they will do is bribe him out of the lawsuit by offering kc or something lol

  15. #15
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    collect some money for good lawyer instead pay for k2, and get this going if u want.

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