Macros are a game changer...For the better??

[0000000]

Kallop's analysis is very good. Dasinister, not so much . I watched that Sinis video, he could be macroing minor but it is not so obvious like with BOO. To me, he is just an average player. But then most modern sin videos all look the same as that to me. You say he uses the wrong skills, it looks to me like he just does not have much experience/control when he plays in stressful situations and makes mistakes.

I used 3 hand positions when I played: position 1 default - L on combo+pots R on mouse for camera and LF, 2 - L on pots and minor R on mouse for camera/LF for escaping or support, 3- L on combo only R on pots+minor for minor combo. As Kallop put it's really obvious when I move hands in the videos, you can see the playstyle shift abruptly. If I had 2 hands on the keyboard I had to lightfeet with a lefthand skillbar switch. At 5:16 in that video i am changing from position 1 to 3 to 1 which is why it looks janky. There are quite a few mistakes simply due to hardware limitations at the time when recording, and membrane keyboard ghosting issues. The HP pot + cure thing isn't a macro it's muscle memory, same with HP+drains. I'd always HP pot to cover unavoidable animations. If you play the game manually for thousands of hours you get quite good muscle memory.

Macros were bad before ~2006 because health/mana were so low that they had to be micromanaged really delicately. ctrl minor was a bigger deal because my hand would tire after about 60 seconds whereas someone with ctrl mh could go forever. Macros became super OP from about firedrake onwards and I stopped caring after that

ps I tried rise online a bit, it's pretty good.

[SheldonCooper]

. I feel like you struggled with minor combo in the past and just justify that by saying everybody uses a macro.

You pretty much summed it up perfectly lol. There is some frustration or not enough e-attention given here to the poor guy, hence everyone else are cheaters and macroers apparently. Clear example how he reacted when he logged my server with noob starter gear and a maxed out guy kills him and he says he has k0xp xD

0 is a clear NON MACRO player you can see that from a mile away. SininS has it on minor heal and even that a poor one as far as I saw. He doesn't even burn the mana out with it. Check some of other assassin players, they are burning mana to 0 even with cooldown on the minor with good enough PCs and macros on mouses. Regarding Sinins combo there's absolutely nothing macroish there lol. In fact the guy is not even an example of an elite comboer in those clips as he is showing there (in crowds), his gear is doing most of the work.

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Like, 0000000 isn't even draining his mana to 0 in a situation where he has 3000+ mana 2v1 against battle priests, come on man. In fact, he's actually just playing bad (by today's standards).

Exactly lol, he doesn't even make the best optimized squeeze out of it as you could with 3k mana, but at those times he didn't rly need to. 70 sin in full uniques was a mean tank machine in old KO, and BP had original judgement damage which we all know is quite sh1t, that's why we modify it and boost it heavily on private servers nowadays.
As 0 said himself it was a hardware limit also, that's why he is combining it most of the time with HP potion also here and there.

I was learning the sin myself from 0's videos, only thing I "upgraded" was that I've set another MH on the spot of the HP potion (for the purpose of bad hardware aswell), and I simply didn't have or need the HP potion on the two attacking skillbars cause by pressing fast and repeatadly on keyboard 6767676 I was able to burn my mana efficiently and not getting to tired while doing it too. And when the mana was really low I simply pressed only 1 MH key or so to control it better.

I even had support skill bar with 1 - mana 2 3 4 minors 5 hp pot for escaping so I could use my mouse and heal myself or party members with the left hand super fast and super efficient if it was needed.

Here's a clear example of a warrior macro, spamming R and hell blade for example:


I was searching hard to find a clear example of rogue macro combo, couldn't find any. It's just not convenient for someone to write an assassin macro combo lol for obvious reasons. But pretty much every youtube video shows clear use of minor heal macros yeah.

And there are tons of warriors with main attacking skill macros nowadays, that is also true.

[Euphoria]

You pretty much summed it up perfectly lol. There is some frustration or not enough e-attention given here to the poor guy, hence everyone else are cheaters and macroers apparently. Clear example how he reacted when he logged my server with noob starter gear and a maxed out guy kills him and he says he has k0xp xD

0 is a clear NON MACRO player you can see that from a mile away. SininS has it on minor heal and even that a poor one as far as I saw. He doesn't even burn the mana out with it. Check some of other assassin players, they are burning mana to 0 even with cooldown on the minor with good enough PCs and macros on mouses. Regarding Sinins combo there's absolutely nothing macroish there lol. In fact the guy is not even an example of an elite comboer in those clips as he is showing there (in crowds), his gear is doing most of the work.




Exactly lol, he doesn't even make the best optimized squeeze out of it as you could with 3k mana, but at those times he didn't rly need to. 70 sin in full uniques was a mean tank machine in old KO, and BP had original judgement damage which we all know is quite sh1t, that's why we modify it and boost it heavily on private servers nowadays.
As 0 said himself it was a hardware limit also, that's why he is combining it most of the time with HP potion also here and there.

I was learning the sin myself from 0's videos, only thing I "upgraded" was that I've set another MH on the spot of the HP potion (for the purpose of bad hardware aswell), and I simply didn't have or need the HP potion on the two attacking skillbars cause by pressing fast and repeatadly on keyboard 6767676 I was able to burn my mana efficiently and not getting to tired while doing it too. And when the mana was really low I simply pressed only 1 MH key or so to control it better.

I even had support skill bar with 1 - mana 2 3 4 minors 5 hp pot for escaping so I could use my mouse and heal myself or party members with the left hand super fast and super efficient if it was needed.

Here's a clear example of a warrior macro, spamming R and hell blade for example:


I was searching hard to find a clear example of rogue macro combo, couldn't find any. It's just not convenient for someone to write an assassin macro combo lol for obvious reasons. But pretty much every youtube video shows clear use of minor heal macros yeah.

And there are tons of warriors with main attacking skill macros nowadays, that is also true.

there you go buddy :

[NuclearWinter]

the game as evolved and the level of skill has raised so much since 2006

sure, but not since about 2009? I can literally log into any server and with equal items, typically out PK most people in a party. I mean knowing who to target, knowing how to position etc. I'm nowhere near incredible, and I'm still better than a LOT of people who play this game. The only big change is that all of us who were teenagers / kids in 2009~ now have bank accounts to buy items with. That is LITERALLY the only change.

Top clans aren't based off of who is best, they're based off of who has the most money to dump in / but also the most number of players that can dump money in as well.



as far as macro goes I'm against it, but I'm also against genie that nearly everyone uses to exp now, but no one wants to hear that argument again for the millionth time, lol

[Kallop]

sure, but not since about 2009? I can literally log into any server and with equal items, typically out PK most people in a party. I mean knowing who to target, knowing how to position etc. I'm nowhere near incredible, and I'm still better than a LOT of people who play this game. The only big change is that all of us who were teenagers / kids in 2009~ now have bank accounts to buy items with. That is LITERALLY the only change.

Top clans aren't based off of who is best, they're based off of who has the most money to dump in / but also the most number of players that can dump money in as well.



as far as macro goes I'm against it, but I'm also against genie that nearly everyone uses to exp now, but no one wants to hear that argument again for the millionth time, lol

This is so far from the truth. Like 5 years ago, melee parties were incredibly inorganized. Like I've made a point calling out some PSKO players in the past for being awful, because they played KO like it was still 2007. We were able to dominate parties in 5v8, 4v8 or even 3v8 situations, but that's just not realistic these days. Like in the past I played BP and was able to 2v8 an "organized" melee clan, just because they were so bad at the game. But that's 8 years ago. Right now, if you descent aggressively, then you will likely just die, unless it's well timed. Or you could bait out people by descenting and shield swapping. People recognize when to kill warriors that can't descent into safety, which didn't happen 5 years ago. People didn't subside the enemy party based on Torment timings and whatnot, people didn't predict party cures or bait out skills. Like there are cases where mage parties use every single skill at the same time, because it's important to have the same cooldowns. Mage teams use combinations of skills to bait out heals, or to deal poke damage. People can split up into smaller groups to chase out targets, instead of playing as a 8-man group.

There has definitely been tons of innovation in terms of micro-strategy in PK. But just straight up basic mechanical play hasn't improved, because we've pretty much reached the limit a while back. Sure some item switches are pretty cool, but very niche. There's just a big difference between a casual, fun oriented inorganized group and a competitive organized team. If you happen to play in a server populated by competitive players, then it's pretty abysmal to try and play against them without being competitive yourself.

[Euphoria]

This is so far from the truth. Like 5 years ago, melee parties were incredibly inorganized. Like I've made a point calling out some PSKO players in the past for being awful, because they played KO like it was still 2007. We were able to dominate parties in 5v8, 4v8 or even 3v8 situations, but that's just not realistic these days. Like in the past I played BP and was able to 2v8 an "organized" melee clan, just because they were so bad at the game. But that's 8 years ago. Right now, if you descent aggressively, then you will likely just die, unless it's well timed. Or you could bait out people by descenting and shield swapping. People recognize when to kill warriors that can't descent into safety, which didn't happen 5 years ago. People didn't subside the enemy party based on Torment timings and whatnot, people didn't predict party cures or bait out skills. Like there are cases where mage parties use every single skill at the same time, because it's important to have the same cooldowns. Mage teams use combinations of skills to bait out heals, or to deal poke damage. People can split up into smaller groups to chase out targets, instead of playing as a 8-man group.

There has definitely been tons of innovation in terms of micro-strategy in PK. But just straight up basic mechanical play hasn't improved, because we've pretty much reached the limit a while back. Sure some item switches are pretty cool, but very niche. There's just a big difference between a casual, fun oriented inorganized group and a competitive organized team. If you happen to play in a server populated by competitive players, then it's pretty abysmal to try and play against them without being competitive yourself.

Exactly, as we go further in time we can absolutely see the progress that players all over knightonline have made.
Whether its the decents you said, the timed db skills + DECENTS in order to hit the floor and then counter subside etc.
@NUCLEAR, you can do good in a server without getting a proper well played team, with perfect teamplay. You will probably get wiped by mages or warrior party.. Sure you can have some fun killing some noobs in aoc but thats it .

[StanDontCare]

My memory of Sheldon is.... if he cant 1 spike you, he is light feeting away, but keep talking like you know anything.

[SacruM]

Woaa, i assumed before something is wrong with DaSinister, but after reading hes past few comments conclusion is clear - kid straight outta fortnite 'dog water' lmao.
Hes analysis is perfect example of a guy who never was good at sin yet calling everyone around

Zero and SininS are clearly not macroing, to be real they were not even that good in case of minor, just pretty entertaining to watch.

As for BOO - its not quite clear in hes case, as for myself i did play pretty same skillbar and combo which he does for like 15 years or so, and its totally doable.
It is suspicious cus he seems to have bad ping, and hes minors stack up which make effect of minoring faster then it is actually.
Funny enough is that "minor cooldown" ( 0.1ms ) actually made that combo impossible, since it blocks randomly way too much minor.
( Even at beast pc you can minor faster on 1/2 minors on keyboard, with mouse right click + keyboard it will miss alot of minor hits and massively slow it down to the point even just minor on right click will be faster )

Any legit minor way with "minor cooldown" is nowadays bad unless you are not using macro, thats the truth.

So nowadays 99% of sins use macro, especially for minor, since "minor cooldown" actually f**cked up many good legit minor ways ( i won't even mention duration pot.. ) But thats action-reaction, "smart" KO stuff wanted to 'block' or either 'reduce' macro players, while effect was opposite, they f**ked up mostly legit sins - so everyone uses it.

[SnapCracklePop]

I didn't read a fucking thing in this post, but I just wanted to come in here to say if you ever used a macro in this game you are a pussy ass bitch and I'll fucking destroy you 1v1 100% of the time without macro with less gear.

[Gerquik91]

To be honest i just read the two first post and let me tell you something. If u ever use macro as playing as roguer. U svck 😂
Btw up this moment is there ppl using it?