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This is a discussion on PayPal within the General Chat forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; Anyone can tell something about it? Im about to sell my char, and I want to know how can I ...
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  1. #1
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    Anyone can tell something about it? Im about to sell my char, and I want to know how can I sell char over PayPal in safest way, is there any time limit after guy cant charge back me anymore? Is there any tip that can make it not possible to charge back or just to make it more safe?

    Thanks for answers/help in advence

  2. #2
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    do it thorugh WU..

  3. #3
    Senior Member giga's Avatar
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    i just sold some items, this is what i did:

    requested money from his paypal
    put in the comments: Accepting this money request implies that the in-game trade has already been completed, and is now being paid for through this transaction

  4. #4
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    I take no credit for any of this.

    Well, I think anyone who has sold has run into some serious problems when dealing through Paypal. Being an experienced seller, I will share some secrets as to how to protect yourself against chargebacks, and frauded money.

    To begin, we'll take this from the approach of a GP seller. In other words, you are selling GP for Paypal money. First of all, it's important to accept the facts:

    1) You can't prove to Paypal you gave them the items
    2) You're breaking copyright laws
    3) Paypal deems Virtual Currency trading as risky, and will Limit accounts that they find doing it.

    With these in mind, it becomes quite obvious that you don't want to get into disputes when dealing with Paypal. You aren't going to win. So, here's the way to avoid getting ripped off.

    1) Be realistic.

    If someone is using THEIR money, realize that they are going to very careful. If the buyer is offering an abnormal price (6-7 dollars per Mil USD), then that's a good sign they're fake. Also, if they publicly say they'll go first, be very cautious. People using their money usually are verrry hesitant about going first, unless you have a great reputation.

    2) Talk to the customer.

    Talk to your customers on MSN before you do any transactions with them. By simply chatting on MSN, you can usually get a decent idea of where somebody is really from, how old they are, and why they're buying the gold. If your customer can't speak proper English, and seems childish, be careful. Also, if someone is rushing you to do a trade, just block them. Anyone rushing to trade you is trying to make you act against your judgement.

    3) Ask for some Paypal information

    Before your customer even pays you, make sure his account is VERIFIED. Also, it's extremely important that their ADDRESS IS CONFIRMED. These two factors are extremely important if you wish to protect yourself. Also ask them if it's their account, or their parents. Also make sure the address on their account is listed in the phonebook, and is their current place of residence. If your customer hasn't passed each criteria here, you leave yourself prone to chargebacks. Also tell them you will be calling their house, to verify their location, with the address you get from their Paypal account.

    4) Have them include a note with their payment

    With every payment you make on Paypal, you can include a Note, or a Memo. This can help you prove that your customer received their item. Have them include a message like "Thanks for fixing my site for me!" or just "I received my item before this payment was made - I promise not to chargeback". This is a good little measure to help protect yourself. Try to avoid using the word Runescape, because Paypal does not like people trading virtual currency.

    5) Call their listed number.

    After the customer has paid your Paypal, click the Details on his payment. Make sure they included their Confirmed Address in the payment, which is displayed here:



    Now, call their house, by checking at whitepages.com for the phone number that corresponds with their address, by doing a reverse address search:



    Call them up. If the account is under their name, their consent is all you need. If it's under their parents' name, tell them you need their consent for the payment to be accepted. This is extremely important. This step proves that the account being used is not stolen, and therefore an Unauthorized chargeback can not be filed.

    6) Claim/Cancel

    Last but not least, have your customer File an Item Dispute claim, and cancel it. Although most customers who complied with steps 1-5 will rarely try and claim scam you, better safe than sorry. There are many guides on how to do this, so I won't get into the details. If you are particularily suspicous, have them also file an Unauthorized claim and cancel it as well.

    By following these 6 steps, you have eliminated the vast majority of Paypal scams. The most devastating scams usually involve people paying you from stolen accounts. This guide will prevent these scams, and in turn, keep you out of the red![/b]
    Also about the cancellation and again, i take no credit.

    We all know that Paypal is easiest method when coming to buying or selling mills. However, it also got something deadly, called Charge Back feature, where the person who paid you can reverse the payment.


    How is this done?

    We will go to the base of this scam. There is two kinds of funding methods to Paypal.

    1. Fund by Bank/Other Paypal accounts/any other method.
    2. Fund by CreditCard

    Now If the person funded his/her Paypal with method #1, and then sends you cash AND then Claim & Cancel, then the cash is irreversible; no matter what. So you are safe!

    However, if the person funded his Paypal with a CC [Credit Card]then it can be reversed, regardless of him filing a claim and canceling it.


    Scam Explained

    In Paypal, the claim and canceling method is effective. Even in CC payments, Paypal itself won't really let you claim it back once you Claim and Cancel.

    However, the person who sent you cash can call the CC company and say he didn't authorize that specific payment & their card is stolen. Then, the Credit Card company will reverse the payment towards Paypal & then Paypal will reverse the payment from you. Another way this is done is sending the cash via a different IP and then filing a report with Paypal saying they didn't authorize that payment & someone else was in control of their Paypal account. Both methods works for scammers; resulting in high charge back rates in Paypal.

    This can happen regardless of you have money in your Paypal account or not. So if you did something like, transfered the money to another account, then that will be reversed too. Hence you end up getting scammed/your account will have negative balance.


    How to prevent this?

    There is two ways:

    1. Having a Paypal account that won't accept Credit Card payments.
    2. Having a disclaimer in your 'selling gp' thread saying that you will NOT accept CC payments.

    Method #1

    Only Premier/Business accounts can accept Credit Card payments in Paypal. So if you keep your account as a basic one (unverified & without adding a Credit Card/Bank account), you simply cannot accept CC payments and you can clearly say to your buyer, "Sorry bro, I don't accept CC payment" and not do the trade.

    Method #2

    In your mills thread, clearly say that you won't accept any Credit Card payments via Paypal and if the buyer still sends it, then it would be their responsibility to get it back.

    I wrote one disclaimer to copy and paste in your thread:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
    Quote:
    I will not accept Credit Card funded payments in Paypal. If your Paypal account is directly funded by yours/your parents credit card then do not bother contacting me. If you do send me money using Credit Card, I am not responsible for it & its up to you to get it back [I will not send it back] However, if your Paypal is funded by a Bank, I will do trade with you. You must know how to claim and cancel. If not, read this thread for more info: http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=149307
    Say, someone comes up to you & agrees to the above disclaimer. After that, he sends you cash but how would you know his cash is Credit Card funded or not?[/b]

    How to find Credit Card funded Payments?


    Way #1
    This method is yet to be confirmed but simple. If someone sends you a Credit Card funded payment then it would have a fee deducted from it! If your buyer had money in his Paypal obtained by Method #1 [above] then Paypal would not charge you that extra commission since sending from Paypal to Paypal is free. However, Credit Card funded payments will be charged a small percentage of fee (about $3 per 50 bucks sent)



    How can you check if a fee is deducted on the payment you are receiving? Well, when you receive the payment, click on the detail link (shown below) and you will see the payment in a new window along with other details. If a fee is deducted, then it will show below the payment and Paypal will deduct that commission from your payment and show you the &#39;net payment&#39; which you will actually receive.



    If someone still sends you a payment via Credit Card fundings to your Paypal account & later says they didn&#39;t read your disclaimer then do not send it back. I repeat, do not send it back.

    Why? because what you send is, your own money, they can still claim their own money back [means they will get your money + their money] So tell them to claim it back themselves and point to your disclaimer. This is because, according to the rules, its not your fault.

    Hope that helps you!
    [/b][/quote]

  5. #5
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    H0RROR Posted Today, 01:52 PM
    I take no credit for any of this.


    QUOTE

    Well, I think anyone who has sold has run into some serious problems when dealing through Paypal. Being an experienced seller, I will share some secrets as to how to protect yourself against chargebacks, and frauded money.

    To begin, we&#39;ll take this from the approach of a GP seller. In other words, you are selling GP for Paypal money. First of all, it&#39;s important to accept the facts:

    1) You can&#39;t prove to Paypal you gave them the items
    2) You&#39;re breaking copyright laws
    3) Paypal deems Virtual Currency trading as risky, and will Limit accounts that they find doing it.

    With these in mind, it becomes quite obvious that you don&#39;t want to get into disputes when dealing with Paypal. You aren&#39;t going to win. So, here&#39;s the way to avoid getting ripped off.

    1) Be realistic.

    If someone is using THEIR money, realize that they are going to very careful. If the buyer is offering an abnormal price (6-7 dollars per Mil USD), then that&#39;s a good sign they&#39;re fake. Also, if they publicly say they&#39;ll go first, be very cautious. People using their money usually are verrry hesitant about going first, unless you have a great reputation.

    2) Talk to the customer.

    Talk to your customers on MSN before you do any transactions with them. By simply chatting on MSN, you can usually get a decent idea of where somebody is really from, how old they are, and why they&#39;re buying the gold. If your customer can&#39;t speak proper English, and seems childish, be careful. Also, if someone is rushing you to do a trade, just block them. Anyone rushing to trade you is trying to make you act against your judgement.

    3) Ask for some Paypal information

    Before your customer even pays you, make sure his account is VERIFIED. Also, it&#39;s extremely important that their ADDRESS IS CONFIRMED. These two factors are extremely important if you wish to protect yourself. Also ask them if it&#39;s their account, or their parents. Also make sure the address on their account is listed in the phonebook, and is their current place of residence. If your customer hasn&#39;t passed each criteria here, you leave yourself prone to chargebacks. Also tell them you will be calling their house, to verify their location, with the address you get from their Paypal account.

    4) Have them include a note with their payment

    With every payment you make on Paypal, you can include a Note, or a Memo. This can help you prove that your customer received their item. Have them include a message like "Thanks for fixing my site for me!" or just "I received my item before this payment was made - I promise not to chargeback". This is a good little measure to help protect yourself. Try to avoid using the word Runescape, because Paypal does not like people trading virtual currency.

    5) Call their listed number.

    After the customer has paid your Paypal, click the Details on his payment. Make sure they included their Confirmed Address in the payment, which is displayed here:

    Reduced: 87% of original size [ 583 x 246 ]- Click to view full image

    Now, call their house, by checking at whitepages.com for the phone number that corresponds with their address, by doing a reverse address search:



    Call them up. If the account is under their name, their consent is all you need. If it&#39;s under their parents&#39; name, tell them you need their consent for the payment to be accepted. This is extremely important. This step proves that the account being used is not stolen, and therefore an Unauthorized chargeback can not be filed.

    6) Claim/Cancel

    Last but not least, have your customer File an Item Dispute claim, and cancel it. Although most customers who complied with steps 1-5 will rarely try and claim scam you, better safe than sorry. There are many guides on how to do this, so I won&#39;t get into the details. If you are particularily suspicous, have them also file an Unauthorized claim and cancel it as well.

    By following these 6 steps, you have eliminated the vast majority of Paypal scams. The most devastating scams usually involve people paying you from stolen accounts. This guide will prevent these scams, and in turn, keep you out of the red!


    Also about the cancellation and again, i take no credit.


    QUOTE

    We all know that Paypal is easiest method when coming to buying or selling mills. However, it also got something deadly, called Charge Back feature, where the person who paid you can reverse the payment.


    How is this done?

    We will go to the base of this scam. There is two kinds of funding methods to Paypal.

    1. Fund by Bank/Other Paypal accounts/any other method.
    2. Fund by CreditCard

    Now If the person funded his/her Paypal with method #1, and then sends you cash AND then Claim & Cancel, then the cash is irreversible; no matter what. So you are safe!

    However, if the person funded his Paypal with a CC [Credit Card]then it can be reversed, regardless of him filing a claim and canceling it.


    Scam Explained

    In Paypal, the claim and canceling method is effective. Even in CC payments, Paypal itself won&#39;t really let you claim it back once you Claim and Cancel.

    However, the person who sent you cash can call the CC company and say he didn&#39;t authorize that specific payment & their card is stolen. Then, the Credit Card company will reverse the payment towards Paypal & then Paypal will reverse the payment from you. Another way this is done is sending the cash via a different IP and then filing a report with Paypal saying they didn&#39;t authorize that payment & someone else was in control of their Paypal account. Both methods works for scammers; resulting in high charge back rates in Paypal.

    This can happen regardless of you have money in your Paypal account or not. So if you did something like, transfered the money to another account, then that will be reversed too. Hence you end up getting scammed/your account will have negative balance.


    How to prevent this?

    There is two ways:

    1. Having a Paypal account that won&#39;t accept Credit Card payments.
    2. Having a disclaimer in your &#39;selling gp&#39; thread saying that you will NOT accept CC payments.

    Method #1

    Only Premier/Business accounts can accept Credit Card payments in Paypal. So if you keep your account as a basic one (unverified & without adding a Credit Card/Bank account), you simply cannot accept CC payments and you can clearly say to your buyer, "Sorry bro, I don&#39;t accept CC payment" and not do the trade.

    Method #2

    In your mills thread, clearly say that you won&#39;t accept any Credit Card payments via Paypal and if the buyer still sends it, then it would be their responsibility to get it back.

    I wrote one disclaimer to copy and paste in your thread:


    QUOTE
    Quote:
    I will not accept Credit Card funded payments in Paypal. If your Paypal account is directly funded by yours/your parents credit card then do not bother contacting me. If you do send me money using Credit Card, I am not responsible for it & its up to you to get it back [I will not send it back] However, if your Paypal is funded by a Bank, I will do trade with you. You must know how to claim and cancel. If not, read this thread for more info: http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=149307
    Say, someone comes up to you & agrees to the above disclaimer. After that, he sends you cash but how would you know his cash is Credit Card funded or not?



    How to find Credit Card funded Payments?


    Way #1
    This method is yet to be confirmed but simple. If someone sends you a Credit Card funded payment then it would have a fee deducted from it! If your buyer had money in his Paypal obtained by Method #1 [above] then Paypal would not charge you that extra commission since sending from Paypal to Paypal is free. However, Credit Card funded payments will be charged a small percentage of fee (about $3 per 50 bucks sent)

    Reduced: 83% of original size [ 614 x 460 ] - Click to view full image

    How can you check if a fee is deducted on the payment you are receiving? Well, when you receive the payment, click on the detail link (shown below) and you will see the payment in a new window along with other details. If a fee is deducted, then it will show below the payment and Paypal will deduct that commission from your payment and show you the &#39;net payment&#39; which you will actually receive.

    Reduced: 61% of original size [ 832 x 29 ] - Click to view full image

    If someone still sends you a payment via Credit Card fundings to your Paypal account & later says they didn&#39;t read your disclaimer then do not send it back. I repeat, do not send it back.

    Why? because what you send is, your own money, they can still claim their own money back [means they will get your money + their money] So tell them to claim it back themselves and point to your disclaimer. This is because, according to the rules, its not your fault.

    Hope that helps you![/b]
    +1 i guess you buy lots of shit with paypal eh ?

  6. #6
    Senior Member TheMadHatter's Avatar
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    I wouldn&#39;t want someone calling my house over this shit, maybe that&#39;s just me :P

    Simplest way:
    They send you the money, you send it to your bank.
    Wait 3-5 days, then the moneys safe and you give em what they want.
    If they&#39;re not willing to wait the time, then they&#39;re either an unpatient bastard, or a potential scammer.

  7. #7
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    I wouldn&#39;t want someone calling my house over this shit, maybe that&#39;s just me :P

    Simplest way:
    They send you the money, you send it to your bank.
    Wait 3-5 days, then the moneys safe and you give em what they want.
    If they&#39;re not willing to wait the time, then they&#39;re either an unpatient bastard, or a potential scammer.[/b]
    no... "the" money is still not safe. They can still chargeback, and if the money is not in your paypal account you will go to a negative balance, paypal is ridiculous. Just use WU to sell.

  8. #8
    Senior Member giga's Avatar
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    wu charges like 20$ fee :S

    if im selling something for 100$, i&#39;ll only get 80

  9. #9
    deadlysin
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    wu charges like 20$ fee :S

    if im selling something for 100$, i&#39;ll only get 80[/b]
    Or ... you could just make the person give you $100 + pay the fee.
    So you still get $100, but they have to pay $120. :P

  10. #10
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    i just sold some items, this is what i did:

    requested money from his paypal
    put in the comments: Accepting this money request implies that the in-game trade has already been completed, and is now being paid for through this transaction[/b]

    That comment doesnt mean crap because paypal doesnt cover non-tangible goods no matter what has been signed or verbally agreed on.

    Freestyler its simple... you ask for a copy of drivers license to verify identity. You ask for the 1800# on the back of their CC through paypal... and the last 4 digits so you can call their CC company to verify its a real payment. If they paid through bank account with paypal you ask for the bank # to make sure its a real payment. If they paid with paypal funds. You call the 1800# paypal and ask to verify that the payment just made to you wasn&#39;t a stolen account. All these places you call will then call the guy who bought from you to verify... and then call you back.

    Simple as that.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Norgrenator's Avatar
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    as me and a couple others learned that no matter how many precautions you take they can still charge back through thier credit card company and fuck you over. only suggestion is to sell to well known and legit people only.

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