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Something to think about

This is a discussion on Something to think about within the General Chat forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; I was perusing the KO forums (something I do on occasion and have been doing a lot more of lately) ...
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  1. #1
    Pixiecatt
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    Default Something to think about

    I was perusing the KO forums (something I do on occasion and have been doing a lot more of lately) and found this posting.......

    I don't want to get flamed for this...but maybe, just maybe after reading this piece from this particular player (have no clue who this person is or what server they play on) it will make us all think a little bit more about our reactions to all the cheating going on as well as cussing out K2 etc.....

    LIke i said, i don't know who wrote it etc...but I do give them kudos for speaking out. If the author of this is in here, I am one player who definately knows how you feel.

    http://24.11.236.130/supportk2.htm

  2. #2
    Senior Member Shurt's Avatar
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    Very interesting. Somebody thought outside the box. I must say I've never thought of it that way. Btw, whoever wrote this plays on Olympia or Xigenon I believe (don't take my word for it, just saw his screen shots of KOXP'ers.)

  3. #3
    Senior Member festo's Avatar
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    Ive always said this. The amount of work i did without tools was stupid you just seem to never get anywere, then with 300 ppl pming you "FUCKIN GM" you get annoyed. I always thought if only people could see what i was doing PISSED ME RIGHT OFF

  4. #4
    Pixiecatt
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    Yes I'm one of the ones that gripes about how k2 is not doing anything however, after reading this posting from the author, it made me stop and think.

    Bear with me here people....

    Last January I ran into a problem and after bombarding Customer Service with phone calls and cs tickets I did finally receive some help. After speaking with the rep that I dealth with and now after reading this posting it made me realize a few things.....

    1. I don't think that k2 realized when they first launched this game just how big it would become.....when you think about it....they are dealing with thousands of accounts and problems each day and only have x amount of people to handle them.

    2. I know this is by far the worst problem we've encountered while playing this game. In the past, whether the problem is the game being bugged or other problems, k2 did get it fixed...maybe it took them a while, but eventually it did get fixed....

    Like flameboy said in his posting on the ko forums (http://forum.knightonlineworld.com/f...howtopic=87435), we got their attention....now we "the legitimate" players of this game need to band together and maybe come up with a way to get rid of these idiot cheaters who make the game less enjoyable for us. It won't come bye people quitting...it will come by everyone working together.

  5. #5
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    some interesting information, however he is strongly biased. Nearly every other p2p mmorpg has similar CC security, it is only a standard now, we expect nothing less. K2 should strive to be the best instead of striving to not be the worst. And 8million players? what a massive load of crap. I honestly dont think they have more than 1 million in fact last i heard it was a lot less.

    I dont care about their excuses. When you start asking people to pay for your game you are in the real world competing with the biggest games in the world and you can't bullshit people around for long without your game suffering. I've said it before but USKO will close before jpko or korean ko even though they are making more cash.

  6. #6
    Senior Member festo's Avatar
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    Well the max server capacity when i was a GM was around 1235 per server

  7. #7
    Pixiecatt
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    Originally posted by h3h3h3
    some interesting information, however he is strongly biased. Nearly every other p2p mmorpg has similar CC security, it is only a standard now, we expect nothing less. K2 should strive to be the best instead of striving to not be the worst. And 8million players? what a massive load of crap. I honestly dont think they have more than 1 million in fact last i heard it was a lot less.
    That might be 8 million players through all the games k2 puts out. Remember, KO is not the only one they are dealing with. And like I said..I'm not agreeing with him...at least not all all the things he said but reading this did change my attitude just a bit.

    I enjoy the hell out of this game..whether i'm online leveling, pking or just screwing around, driving my clannies nuts with my antics or whatever. Its a way for me to unwind after dealing with a hellacious day at work, then coming home and dealing with kids and my other half. The biggest thing about this game for me is the friends I've made over the last 2 years from playing KO. I've met some great people through this game (yes inluding you Zero!!!!!! :wub: ) and want to keep doing that. So what do we, as the players do to get our ko community back?

  8. #8
    OLD1953
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    Festo, I think you mean 1235 per server or 3X that in one server group, right?

    Which means you've probably got about 1100 X 9 X3 = 29700 or 30K ppl online at one time.

    No wonder the game is crowded. DAOC has 36K players online right now, and they've got more than 20 server groups, and much bigger maps. DAOC has too much space for the community, but KO has far too little, at peak times.

    Aside from suggesting murder as an option, there aren't many good alternatives for stopping the cheats right now.

    However, if K2 doesn't grow it's self into the capability to care for these games, they are going to lose the community they've built up to other games. And that's a stone fact, because the community is already leaving.

    When K2 says they have 8 million, they are counting only downloads of game clients, or so I believe.

  9. #9
    Acca
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    Default Re: Something to think about

    Originally posted by Pixiecatt
    http://24.11.236.130/supportk2.htm
    Any of you got a copy of that page? I wanted to read but the link doesn't work.
    TiA.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Shurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Something to think about

    Originally posted by Acca+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Acca)</div>
    <!--QuoteBegin-Pixiecatt
    Any of you got a copy of that page? I wanted to read but the link doesn't work.
    TiA.[/b]
    Sure.

    Well, here goes nothing,

    I am positive that I am going to be flamed, insulted, threatened and hated for what I am about to say. But I sincerely hope that everyone takes the time to actually read all I am about to write. Then, after you finish, take time to think about what I have said. I am sure that a large number of you will call me a flip-flopper and a brown noser. That's ok. Your entitled to your opinions.

    First let me start by saying this. I do not arbitrarily hate any nationality or person just because a few select individuals of that sect are corrupt. Just because someone is different does not make them wrong or bad.

    For the past month I have watched the Knight Online forum fill up with page after page anti K2/KO ranting and ravings. I admit and also regret that I contributed to it as well. I made accusations that I could not validate, and I insulted some individuals without regard for their feelings. For this I am profoundly sorry. I will be the first to admit that I have faults just like everyone else. I swore that I was "quitting this blankity-blank game" and slammed K2 Networks by claiming "they haven't got the skills necessary to fix the game". I even directly insulted GM Sullimo in my ignorant ranting. [/end_self_abasement].

    So, only one week after I swore off playing Knight online I had an epiphany of sorts.

    I had just returned home after working 14 hours under very stressful conditions and all I wanted to do was vegetate in front of my computers. So I kicked off my shoes and flopped into my desk chair and stared absent mindedly at My Knight Online PC wallpaper for a few minutes just trying to let the stress drain out of me. I surfed around the net for awhile and found myself at the knight Online forum perusing the various topics and hacker complaints. At first I just sort of sulked over the fact that "K2 wasn't helping us legit players". But the more I soaked in my self pity I began to feel an anger seething up inside over the fact that inconsiderate cheaters had ruined one of my favorite ways to unwind and their seemed to be nothing I could do about it. I felt that K2 was mostly to blame for not managing their business as I felt they should. I had heard rumors of corruption and speculation that perhaps K2 themselves were in some fashion responsible for the famed "Hack Program". So I set out on a personal vendetta to dig up some dirt on K2 Networks but having no clue (in retrospect) what I planed to do with that dirt once I had excavated it.

    With only a few queries I found the site for the hack program and where it originated from no big deal. At once I could see that the whole site was quickly and very poorly created. Now I've been in the IT industry for the better part of 10 years and I know a scam site when I see one. I am 99% sure this program has a key logger of sorts as well as a primitive SMTP engine that collects user login information and then forwards that information to a remote location. So a user will download and install this "tool" thinking they can use it to level up in a few days and then rule CZ. They reach a high level and get all their high class items, then they log in one day to see.... "OH POOR ME !!! MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED!!!!!"............. boohoo! It wasn't hacked you moron, you gave them your info!

    So my conclusion about the hack program was, "wow even K2 isn't this disorganized".

    After that bit of digging I decided to probe a little deeper in my search on K2. What I discovered astounded me.

    My first concern was users credit card information being extrapolated from K2's database so I did some searching to see what measures an e-commerce company must take to protect consumer information. All your major credit card companies have teamed up to create what is known as the Payment Card Industry data security standard (PCIDSS) which requires all e-merchants to adhere to strict guidelines such as having high end antivrius, firewall, and data encryption to and from the card holders computer. Applications that process credit card information must have a thorough code inspection by and outside agency or they must employ a web transaction firewall. K2 has done both. They routinely audit their code and they use Netcontinuum's hardware firewall that actually checks each line that you submit via web forms for professional hack attempts such as SQL injections .I did more searching trying to find a approximate price tag for that kind of hardware, The cheapest was $30,000.00 USD! That's more then most of the kids playing this game will make in the next 10 years! Heck, that's more then the average salary of a high school grad. I'd call that a good investment just to protect your credit card information. That's just for their commerce division, it does not include the cost of other components needed for their data infrastructure. The game servers alone could cost $1,000,000 +.

    Until just a few months ago K2 was battling daily hack attempts from professional hacking rings. I'm not talking about some script kiddies trying to launch a DOS attack or get free premiums and duped items. I'm talking about big dogs that would hack an account of a high level player, change the username and password to lock the user out, and then demand that K2 pay them a ransom to the tune of $5,000 USD! If K2 refused then the player was forced to watch their character, that they had spent years building up, be striped (raped if you will) of all their items and sold to the highest bidder on certain online auctions!

    Now I have installed and ran small scale web and VPN servers for small businesses that didn't even deal in e-commerce, and the number of attacks I saw come across the access logs was shocking, And they were only stray bots from other infected systems on the internet! Now imagine that in conjunction with hundreds of pros hammering away at your information security systems!

    So, if that's not enough to make you stop and think lets look at another scenario that K2 is faced with.

    They have around 95 employees to man handle 8 million plus users. 8,000,000/95 = approximately 84,210 users to 1 K2 rep. I think a 24 hour response time for even a third (about 28,000) that may submit support tickets is almost insurmountable. Also remember that not all 95 employees are CS reps.

    Let me paint it another way:

    A man is being pounded on by 10 men twice his size, he's having a rough enough time as is. Then to make matters worse the passers by start yelling at him for not stopping to help little old ladies crosse the street!

    Lets cut them some slack people. You know they heard us during the "No Premium In November" protest, and they are taking steps to fix the problem, believe me. I hear a lot of people saying W.O.W. has far less problems, why cant K2 be like that. You have to stop and think, Blizzard Entertainment™ is 12 years old, K2 is only 5. Give them time and I think they have the potential to be and industry leader in online game security.

    So, in closing, we made our point during the november campaign, now let show K2 that we are willing to support them in making what is already the most entertaining game online the most secure game online! Lets post those screen shots and gang up on hack users! bring on the trolls!!!!!! WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND WE WILL!!!!! WE WILL NOT LET THE SCUM RUIN OUR GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. #11
    Acca
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    Default Re: Something to think about

    Tnx Shurt

  12. #12
    Hypnos
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    My points:
    All it would take to stop all of this is one patch. It doesn't even matter what they change. Just as long as the size of the knightonline.exe is different, and the server is disallowing the old client exe.

    Too much is expected of the few GMs that are employed and anger should not be directed towards them.

    SQL injection based attacks are only possible when the website programmers and database admins don't do their job, or don't know how. A firewall pulling SQL style syntax and characters from the GET/POST data is one method of protection, but that's not to say it's necessary.

    Like it or not, the embracement of Turkish players/cafes is part of the reason for the level and amount of attacks. A large portion of the top "hackers" come from that country.

    At this point, reporting cheaters doesn't work anymore. With the amount of current GMs and the amount of cheaters, it's literally impossible to manually ban them all.

  13. #13
    Rentzusuken
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    The analogy of one guy being beaten by 10 other guys is dumb as this "one guy" has a reported bankroll of $10MM and could easily staff up to even the score. The salaries they are offering for GMs are pathetic, especially for living in California, so it's merely their own decision to be "outnumbered". What moron would have sympathy for the 1 guy getting his ass kicked by 10 other guys when he has 10 million dollars in his pocket? Moreover, what if you paid a percent of that money in his pocket to protect something of yours and instead of investing it to do so, he kept it all in his pocket only to lose it to the 10 guys raping him? SLM!

  14. #14
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    a lot of speculation

    i still blame k2's management

  15. #15
    wraith86
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    this is all bullshit. why support someone who blatantly LIES to your face? even if they only had 5 gms to man KO ive seen arrow shower hackers in CZ for months and nothing been done about it

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