Third Party Tools

[hongkongfury]

I think playing the game to have fun avoids cheating.[/b]

So you dont think cheaters are having fun?

Lawls.

wow you must really suck then. friend of mine is 72 right now he played on and off for about 3 years non-prem and sure we stayed up late a few nights but he wasnt 'disassociated' from reality as you say. and he has other characters one of them 60+ and he had a problem with his internet for some time where he basically couldnt play or would get owned all the time losing exp from lagg dc death. as for me i got to 65 and stopped but thats a diff story. my life is not compatible with ko lol.

p.s. for someone who tries to sound smart your spelling really sucks :S[/b]

I was calling the lvl 83 dissaccociated from reality.

The example you gave about your freind actually illustrates the point i was making.

[bigjuicyboobies]

People have become so immersed in this game that they fail to realize its a... game. It's sad that people cheat, but whats more sad is the service that paying customers get. I'm with hongkongfury; cheaters are getting more benefits by playing the game for FREE while your paying out the crapper for some lame experience enhancment. How can you really blame them? I've played this game sense a month after it was released to the US, and K2's track record still hasent changed (albiet better than a few years ago). I'm not sticking up for cheating when it brings benefiets over paying players, but thats the reality of the situation. At the moment there are no consequences for cheating and not everyone is Jesus. Figure that one out.

[Rad_Archer]

Well put together topic. Very interesting.

My personal opinion is it isn't black and white and never really has been. People sit on different ends of the spectrum on all issues, from those who think anything goes (scamming, hacking, etc), to those who think you should play within the game solely (ie: upgrading, farming, buying PUS to make ur coins, etc).

Exp Macro - I for one, don't care all that much about guys macroing in Eslant or for levels. I don't do it, but it doesn't bother me where it used to 100%. To be honest, these macroers are playing a lot more and filling the server with active players. Does it hurt the game, yes, in many ways. It's not fair that I see a guy who was 77 pass me to 83 in 2 months (true example) or guys who in 3 short months pass 4 years of work. That bothers me, but not really as much as other issues.

Baba Shopping - This issue is probably the most divided within our community. However, I have personally seen the people who I used to fight with the most, go on to sell their characters and items for USD when they left. It's probably the biggest of the hypocritical issues. My feeling is people who sell off their items get something back from their time and efforts in the game and makes them feel good when they leave. It also causes characters and items to stay within the game, allowing for more use and more players. People also invest more in their characters, enjoy the game more, stay longer and have a better gaming experience. This is also a plus point for those who don't have time to exp a character or farm items because of jobs and school but still want to play the game and be competitive. Better then macroing an acct. for sure.

PK Macro - Hate these guys the most. A recent KSC surfaced of MI6 clan on Oly using KOHack in PK. Currently this month, they have a ton of players in the top monthly NP holders. I think that is just completely fucked up. There are also lvl 40-50 who are the top NP holders over lvl 83d. These guys have +6 hunters bows! lol, messed up shit. You are essentially trying to take something from other people that they have worked hard for themselves, and that is just plain wrong.

Scamming - Thieves are thieves no matter where you are in the world. They should be treated like the scum they are. I don't care what people do or say to you, I don't care how bad the game is in general, scammers are a different breed of loser and I really do believe in karma.


I am sure lots of people will disagree and people lay along all levels of the spectrum but nothing is the same as everything else.

[thesmallone101]

Scamming - Thieves are thieves no matter where you are in the world. They should be treated like the scum they are. I don't care what people do or say to you, I don't care how bad the game is in general, scammers are a different breed of loser and I really do believe in karma.
I am sure lots of people will disagree and people lay along all levels of the spectrum but nothing is the same as everything else.[/b]

you get a +1 for that my friend 8)

[satanaku]

Ah lots of replies to make, so I'll do them all in a row : P



@ babiesforlunch-, thanks but not really. Had been studying 10+ hours a day the last week for finals, plus a 20+ page term paper.

This was a mental break for me.

@LightInTheStar- Perhaps that will be the result, though I doubt it. If so it will be as a result of our own individual

decisions, as well as K2's which will lead to that happening or not.

@sancte- I have seen some people supporting these things in the forums (sometimes veiled, sometimes jokingly), but then again I've also seen backlash by others against those same people. Am I off on that? I'd expect that players who get to the top through hacks are still maligned by the community for the most part once they are found out, though it might be lessening a bit.

@Karysa- Thanks man, I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts on the matter.

@Sirs- yeah doesn't take long to get back up to date after my break, when I got a ton of people filling me in on things (especially the drama) within 5 minutes of logging in lol Us KO players love drama.

I agree things like partying or kicking botters in bdw, will have a lasting impact on how often these are used in these types of events. Note I am not trying to suggest to anyone WHAT THEY SHOULD DO INSIDE THIS GAME, I just feel that by continuing to discuss the results of our actions, and the way we interact with each other, that we can better understand the results and help to shape them, rather then simply being swept along by the tide. Forums like this one are a great way for us to get together and form public opinion within the game, whatever they might turn out to be.

Back on CallMeMike, my warrior BTW sirs. <3 you sexy archer you.

@ashet "If people can support cheating openly - members here will cheat more.". -I absolutely agree with that assessment. Ah and I wasn&#39;t suggesting that babashopping is seen as cheating. I was simply pointing out as you did, that the game itself, K2&#39;s handling of it, and people&#39;s reactions to it led baba&#39;ing to become an accepted, even integral part of the game. I was using references it to question whether or not recent changes might lead to similar acceptance within the community regarding the use of 3rd party tools as well.
"They shouldn&#39;t be here or Ko4life becomes a cheat site." That&#39;s up to us to interpret, and of course the mods : p

@hongkongfury- While your definition of cheating within Ko is certainly one possible interpretation, I think in reality people create their own definition of &#39;cheating&#39; and &#39;legit&#39; over time, in reactions to the conditions they are immersed in. I&#39;d also like to point out that once something becomes the norm, people participating in it are in no way being &#39;deviant&#39;. I also don&#39;t agree that K2&#39;s XP system is unethical, as we can XP at what ever pace we please. The game is intended to be around a long time, and has already been around for years. If everyone could hit top level in lets say a week, that wouldn&#39;t make a whole lot of sense IMO.

"Bat shit insane to me. Is some guy can setup a macro and not get caught for 2000 hours.How can that happen?" Good question, K2/mgames has been letting it happen unfortunately, which has led us to this point.

@M3Gelite- You are right of course. By saying K2, I meant K2 through their ability to get MGames to find ways to adjust to 3rd party users, or lack thereof. Though K2 did remove xtrap of their own accord did they not? if so some of this problem can be seen as a result of that decision. Anyway, thanks though for pointing that out, as I didn&#39;t.

@Kennie- I don&#39;t think this forum is retarded at all, I actually appreciate the fact that people feel encouraged to express their opinions frankly here, no matter how logical or retarded. They also have here some leeway to be flamed by those who don&#39;t agree. It tends towards a bit of arrogance at times true, and creates drama, but people tend to take others opinions more seriously here because of it. Arrogance, strong opinions, and flaming are rocks upon which public opinion are often founded : P

@Kohack- "1. I haven&#39;t been 100% legit in this game. Me and my brother babashopped a char, honestly we did have plenty of money to spend in a hobby and we didn&#39;t have enough time to play and farm on our own.
2. I&#39;m against cheats and 3rd party tools, bug abuse that gives you a huge advantage over the rest. Like those god mode cheats, wall hacks, tbl edited priests, warriors and mages.
3. Even if the whole KO community uses them I won&#39;t. I rather stop playing when that happens."

-I think KoHack you will agree that those first two points are shared by many KO players. They are not contradictions to each other, the first is acceptable within the community, few people cinsider babaing &#39;not legit anymore&#39;,up to now the second generally has not been &#39;legit&#39;. I also think that your 3rd point is a feeling shared by many current players, myself included.

"6. There will always be cheaters, but you can easily keep them as a minority in your community, but if you don&#39;t want to you will have the cheat fest that these BDW events have become." -nicely stated IMO. If 3rd party tools becomes more accepted within the community, unless K2 begins wiping out the accounts using them on a consistent basis, there is a good chance it could take over the entire game.

@Sante (again)- "My noob ass ran out of mana after 1 AOE xD I did stop after I found out sum1 got banned for it, and never really looked back. So, I guess I cant really call the kettle black, but the game got to a point of being unplayable. I dont think talking about it on ko4life is really gonna make a difference though." - Which is why K2&#39;s lack of ability to police these latest 3rd party tools is a big problem, fear of banning is a strong detriment. however I disagree that talking about it won&#39;t help anything, social pressure means a lot to people who are playing a game that involves a large amount of socialization. Most Ko players do not want to be looked down on by the rest of the community for their actions. Opinions formed here, interact with those formed in game, especially since such a large portion of the english community views these forums at least occasionally, and many more commonly then that. As ideas such as CC validation are outside of players control, the only thing we can control is the community, we each have our share in it, nothing more.

@pcolls- "I think most of the reason legit english players are starting to cheat is because the game is unplayable and the only way to "survive&#39; is to cheat. I have played for a while and i have partied with cheaters but not enough to make a difference. so i guess im not innocent"- KOXP was exceedingly common in the game at times in the past, though perhaps not quite to this level, or strength? Might explain why in those days people did &#39;premium strikes&#39;, put anti-koxp symbols on their capes, and had fun luring on koxpers till they were finally limited again, while now instead people are moving towards involving themselves in 3rd party tools to a degree.

@alligater- "Topic starter might be right, but honor is overrated. You play this game for fun, don&#39;t you? Some people have fun accessing a gm, some people used to have fun duping, some people have fun koxping all the way up to lvl cap and some people enjoy it to stay legit (real legit and not hiding it). I want to add, that cheating will be always a part of games. KO is not an exception. "

-Good points, though I&#39;d say that honor is overrated to those who feel it is overrated : P and not to those who don&#39;t, as it is a cultural concept not everyone relates to. If you don&#39;t prefer honor, instead perhaps you might relate more to many people&#39;s preoccupation with being &#39;legit&#39;, the pressure to be accepted by the community that one might socialize within the game, without a lot of grief, get into good parties and clans that one enjoys playing with, etc.

Of course some people are not interested in this, either solo or have their own little group of friends already and don&#39;t care about the opinions of the rest, have no problem being caught koxping, tabling etc and what people will think of them. I do think that other then new players, most current players do not fall within that second group however. zdue to the design of the game, most people join clans, go for NP and lvls, and enjoy whatever status they can get within game, being concerned with other&#39;s opinions to some degree. Which is why even if people do any of those things above, often they didn&#39;t want anyone to know they did in the past lest they are caught and are ostracized for it. However, if consequences for these actions change within the game AND community, then so will people&#39;s actions. Don&#39;t you think?

@bigjuicyboobies- yep, seems to me the fact that opportunities to cheat with little consequence explains why so many are turning to it currently, wearing down public opinion against it as it continues over time.

My continued 2 cents.

[satanaku]

Ah radarcher nice post, strong opinions, more concisely put then I ever could lol

Exp Macro-I find your opinion on Koxping for XP interesting, as some other people in game had been saying the same thing to me about this issue. A year ago, most people were adamant that such people deserved to be banned, as they are getting a free ride compared to other&#39;s work and effort. Interesting to me anyway, how opinions can shift over time, as events change.

I personally think that looking the other way within the community in regards to any level of 3rd party tools is liable to lead to a slippery slope of acceptance, but I could be wrong about that.


Baba Shopping- I guess I was wrong in assuming that babashopping was considered &#39;legit&#39; by pretty much the entire community, didn&#39;t realize there was so much division in regards to the issue still. I agree with your views on Babaing myself. Though I will point out that the old argument against babashopping, that it gives an unfair quick advantage, doesn&#39;t hold water IMO. I do think that the difference between baba&#39;ing and 3rd party lvling, is that other then literally buying someone else&#39;s account, there is no way to purchase levels legitimately in game. Premiums, and scrolls can speed it up, but no where near the lvl of turning on a bot every night as you sleep. This especially matters in newer servers, where hgh lvl chars are hard to come by for sale, and the highest lvls are likely to be koxpd.

I was once very vocal against baba shopping lol and don&#39;t do it myself. But I think it is illogical to take this stand being the game is setup as is, with USD purchases to get ahead perfectly acceptable under the TOS in numerous ways.

Pk Macro- Continued widespread use of this would totally destroy the best part of the game :/ I really hope that whatever people agree on, they do not come to find this type of botting acceptable under any conditions. BTW, I haven&#39;t been active in a few months due to uni, so I wasn&#39;t even aware of some of those things you described. Holy Moses! gonna be real fun to get back into the game in a couple days -_-

[Migit]

I cant find any part of babashopping that is legit. Buying uniques off hackers only supports them... And we all know that 90% of the bosses get taken down by hackers nowadays. Plus almost all the 80+ chars were Baba&#39;d by k0xpers. ko4life is a k0xpers best friend.

[thesmallone101]

I cant find any part of babashopping that is legit. Buying uniques off hackers only supports them... And we all know that 90% of the bosses get taken down by hackers nowadays. Plus almost all the 80+ chars were Baba&#39;d by k0xpers. ko4life is a k0xpers best friend.[/b]

sad but true

[ashet]

XP macro is not playing. Totally ridiculous.

They use all the spawns from legit players. Then sell the accounts. There is no difference between gold farmers and XP macro.

If K2 had a server where everyone was 83. The macro&#39;s would then setup macro&#39;s to farm for pots.

K2 have made it clear. We will eventually get a website report. With instant scan and ban. Sooner the better.

Macro=not playing so G.T.F.O.

[pcolls]

to rad archer and mike.

yes when people baba, the characters and items stay in the game which is ok i gueess but it seems that most of the time you have a huge baba come into a server spending thousands and thousands of dollars to be the best. buying out every roc and rol on edana (true example) this just seems unfair to the person that waits for bach and duke to spawn to get his rol and roc. selling characters I guess I dont mind but its the item part that gets out of hand and thats what i have a problem with.

[pcolls]

to rad archer and mike.

yes when people baba, the characters and items stay in the game which is ok i gueess but it seems that most of the time you have a huge baba come into a server spending thousands and thousands of dollars to be the best. buying out every roc and rol on edana (true example) this just seems unfair to the person that waits for bach and duke to spawn to get his rol and roc. selling characters I guess I dont mind but its the item part that gets out of hand and thats what i have a problem with.

[Kennie]

I like how babashoppers say they have a life and no time to farm when some of them play waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than me after they baba.

If you have a life I&#39;m sure you wont care about what your character has in a game. I died to a lvl 80 guy, *signs off and go play basketball*

[ashet]

Seriosuly if K2 stop it - it will stop.

If not we will go.

Cheat against cheat - pointless

[jpo183]

The way I see it is cheating is cheating but there are also different degees of cheating.

I belive the stuff going on in PVP is crap. Why play if your gonna cheat in PVP. For instance I hate leveling when i used to play Warhammer I didnt care about botting up to my max level so I could do what I wanted (PVP)

The xp is the grind for a lot of people which is why they decide to stay in DCZ (me) . I think the botting for gold, kek rings things like that kills a games econ(Happened in Diez when I was playing there dont know how it is now)

Should be a way to stop that as well as the PVP part. Why cheat in PVP it kills the whole point of playing PVP. Ofc your gonna beat someone when your using godmode........

[Manilas]

As a side note to Babashopping, some find it acceptable because of the lack of support that K2 Network gives to hacked players. And these players really want to keep playing this game but not start over.

For example: I got hacked December 2007. Some friends helped me and gave me some coins and some items but not near the quality of items I had. And because of that, I wasn&#39;t on an equal level of playing like I was before. And K2, well tickets got closed one after the other. So, what did I do. Bought some gbs, scouted the market and bought same items or items of equal power of those before.

Sure, I could of worked months after months trying to get the same gear back without spending a dime but for what, to get back to somewhere I was already at in the past? My brother is even more against any form of rule breaking than I am and even he was agreeing that I should buy the gbs to buy back my stuff.

This is my case with my not so clean state. I didn&#39;t want to buy even more gbs because then, I would of really of felt guilty and would of become just another power hungry player, which I&#39;m not.