views on turkish racism

**0000000** · 07-03-2006, 04:35 PM

Interesting opinions, i would dispute that we are born equal, its pretty naive to think we are since it goes against the grain of scientific wisdom: asians are born with higher IQ on average, blacks with more muscle mass and longer penises (on average), the very idea that we are born equal is utopian and unrealistic since we are at the mercy of our parents' genes and every year more personality traits are linked with genetic functions.

The problem is that this whole field of study has been taboo ever since some crazy nazi doctor tried to prove that blonde caucasions are a superior race. Now it is considered non-PC to even consider the possibility that we are not as equal as we think and life is not fair.

And i hope the smarter readers here know that my mild xenophobia is just a gimmick, i hate all forms of nationalism, and i like to provoke a reaction out of those sorts of people, it does give me a laugh also. I hate the fact that my fellow englishmen are binge-drinking idiots who only eat processed food and sit in front of the TV all day. Also, everytime you try to label this topic as "racism" it damages your case. Do not use powerful words if you aren't going to use them correctly. There is a huge difference between xenophobia and racism.

I always welcome a debate with people who know what they are talking about, but this isnt a BBC forum, its full of kids who just shout racism at anything they dont like.

**PADDY** · 07-03-2006, 04:47 PM

actually zero i think in some instances xenophobia and racism can often draw a very fine line because in these cases you haven't displayed a dislike of all foriegners, but directed your insults at one group, and through it you have insulted many aspects of what the group choses to believe and the way that particular group choses to live their lifes.

I'm sure if you asked turkish citizens if you displayed a hatred of all foriegners or just their group. i think you can guess the answer.

And don't presume everyone that comes from your country oogles page 3 of the sun in their string vest with an england flag hanging from their walls watching eastenders, some of us are educated to a higher level, much like you are trying to do at the moment and some of us have quite valid opinions

**0000000** · 07-03-2006, 05:00 PM

there is some element of truth behind most generalisations. I prefer to look at the cause of generalisations rather than just ignore them completely.

For instance i could say Americans are fat. This is a generalisation but the fact that more than 50% of american adults are overweight does lend some credibility to the statement. You can either choose to ignore any kind of statements like this or look at the reasons for them. I know not all Englishmen are sun-reading chavs, but we have that reputation due to our lack of culture, poor cuisine, terrible nightlife and teenage pregnancy rate compared to the rest of Europe. I think that there is a lot of truth in the statement that the english are yobs, and it doesn't offend me, it just makes me ashamed of this country.

The problem with trying to blur xenophobia, religious hatred and racism is that the first 2 are labels that people stick to, and the latter is purely genetic and thus beyond our control. If someone is going to cling to his nationality like a teddy bear then they leave themselves open to criticism, equally being religious does not spare you from criticism in a free country. Americans should go and read the works of Thomas Jefferson to remind themselves of this.

You wonder why i dislike Islam? The same reason i dislike Christianity; their religious texts are full of bigotted homophobic, anti-scientific NONSENSE that encourages violence against nonbelievers, discourages condoms and tries to control via the fear of a deity. In our country i can go to speakers corner and speak out against religion freely all day, its a shame most of the rest of the world doesn't have the same liberties as us.

**Fluppy** · 07-03-2006, 05:06 PM

zero u like taco? :P <3

i don like racism, btw xenophobia = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobia

for turks = http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenofobi

The xenophobia (hatred or hostility towards the foreigners) is related with racism and the Ethnocentrism

rattrap · 07-03-2006, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by URunFasterWithAKnifE
rattrap, if you don't like recieving pm's... they implemented this handy 'block pm's' feature... i'd recommend its use

i never said that. i was giving advice to the ppl complaining about pms. and some of us have annoying friends who pm you ever 5 sec. so i really couldnt block pms.

Husy_The_Turk · 07-03-2006, 05:12 PM

I have never agreed and will never agree on the idea that a nation can be judged because of a game which worths 10 usd per month to play. i love you all but sorry, that is not in borders of logic and common sense. In my opinion, most of the ".... turks, ksers omg, lurers, i hate turks and bla bla" posters in forums, do not know what a nation is. Yes that is true because if they knew, they wouldnt judge a 1000 years old (open to discuss if less or more) history and real life stories called "nation" with a maybe 4 years old human created and non existant happenings called "knight online".
sory sory sory sory -_-

Devile should open a sticky topic about flamings to each nation, and children who have to pee should enter that topic. Because communities start smelling bad and become annoying, if too many people pee in.

susGe · 07-03-2006, 05:16 PM

the only problem i have with turks is that everytime you say anything to them its automatically about them being a turk. For instance when jade real became queen. Everyone said she sucked. It wasnt because she was a turk it was because she did in fact suck. They make it about there "race" just as much as anyone else does. They are like alot of black people in the respect that they like to play the race card.

**SilverBlade** · 07-03-2006, 05:21 PM

But.. generalisations and stereotypes exist for a reason.. people do not come up with them just because they have nothing better to do.
There is a reason for example why 99.9% of Greeks, Portuguese and Spanish believe the english to be fat, dark red with yellow eyebrows, loud and drunk. That is what they see , that is what they know. But I wonder.. is the fault with those who believe what they have seen, or is, at the fault, at least in part, with those english who are fat, dark red, loud and drunk?

DISCLAIMER: I thought I should use another nation and not the turks as an example. The above says nothing about my personal opinion of the british.

**PADDY** · 07-03-2006, 05:28 PM

you have to bear in mind zero the same freedom of speach and freedom of living that gives you the opportunity to condemn religions also gives those that appaul you the frredom to live their lives in the way they do.

Though i may not agree with the way organised religion preaches out dated rules to children, they do give people a strong set of morals that help guide them through life, for that at least it is worthwhile

**0000000** · 07-03-2006, 05:33 PM

Exactly, we shouldn't try to ignore our image to foreigners, we should do something about it. The main difference i see between British and Turkish people is that the British accept criticism and are used to it, and the Turkish will not tolerate it in any form.

There IS a problem with the number of turks who are cheating, instead of wasting everyone's time talking about a non-issue like racism, i think the turkish KO community could be doing a lot more to stop it. For instance the turkish KO forums could be sending lists of players who discuss using cheats to K2, Turkish cafe owners should be banning any players using cheats on their computers (this is already the case where i live in England).

There are more useful things to do then argue about "racism" in ko.

@megalomaniac: Yes which is why i choose to protest against organised religion peacefully through means of education and the media, i am a member of the national secular society. People have every right to persue what ever religious choices they want, but NO ONE has the right to be immune to criticism. This is the danger we are facing right now, a government introducing bills that will make talking against religion very difficult indeed. Its a good job the majority of our government is against Tony Blair crazy ideas.

Crunch · 07-03-2006, 05:59 PM

I was going to post basically what zero said, most turks aren't bad people generally speaking, it's just that scams/dupes are so readily available to them (cafe's, community), and nothing is being done by the people running these organizations to stop any wrongdoing, shit like this would happen anywhere, thats why there are laws. It is a problem whether or not you want to admit it.

tolgahan · 07-03-2006, 06:06 PM

Why are u all talking about this?
Will this make the world non-racist world?

**Devile** · 07-03-2006, 06:16 PM

I think this is the first time I enjoyed reading 0000000 posts. Good arguments and no flaming.

When someone posts about a guy macroing and happens to be turk, all turks complain about the author saying something bad about the turk, but not about the fact he was cheating. The racism excuse is ALWAYS first argument when it comes to talking about turks. This is not about racism, but about what some ... most of your countrymen do in this game.

Generalizations don't come out of nowhere. If ppl make generalizations about turks is simply cause there a lot of ppl that fall into a certain category, whether u like it or not. If ppl say that turks cheat, scam, ks, etc. its cause there's a huge amount of them that are like that. Peruvians are well known thieves. I dont like this generalization but I understand why is it. 0000000 is right about criticism. Most ppl can take that, but most Turks can't and usually overreact.

As for freedom of speech and liberties, there's no such thing in this forum. This is a gaming forum with rules. Politics and religion are not allowed. I'm sure there are hundreds of places where u can discuss all u want about this. Main reason why none of these subjects are welcome here is cause not everyone is mature enough to discuss this and usually it only brings problems. While some ppl are open minded and can argue about their own religion, some others find it completely offensive and react in a violent way.

If this community feels in a certain way towards a country, is not because this forum is racist or xenophobic, but because players from that country caused that situation. We can try to delete and block all those posts, but that doesnt change how ppl feel about a problem in the game. We can try to react fast to all those racist/xenophobic posts, but that has nothing to do with the forum itself. When u registered this forum, u AGREED to this:

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.

Is it ok for a forum to be tagged as racist just cause a few users? Ain't ironic that the same ppl that complain about generalizations do the exact same thing? How convenient is for these guys to see wrong in everyone else but them.

My views about this whole thing are simple. U came here on your own. We try to do our best to keep this nice for all, but if u dont like it, u can leave anytime u want. We are not a racist, xenophobic or antiturk forum. If u see it that way, im sorry.

Cleatus · 07-03-2006, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by ooooo
You wonder why i dislike Islam? The same reason i dislike Christianity; their religious texts are full of bigotted homophobic, anti-scientific NONSENSE that encourages violence against nonbelievers, discourages condoms and tries to control via the fear of a deity. In our country i can go to speakers corner and speak out against religion freely all day, its a shame most of the rest of the world doesn't have the same liberties as us.

There are so many things wrong with this statement.

Folks, psuedo-intellectuallism is not healthy. There is a difference between being well read, and being able to regurgitate someone else's opinions. We are all entitled to our opinions, and I respect the fact that oo has one. The issue here is it does not seem that the lad has really "studied" any scripture or doctrine to accurately make this type of an evaluation.

I agree, there are many well read indiviuals who have based thier opinion on study, however, in this case it seems there is some biased study. I feel before a person developes such a harsh outlook on a subject, they would be do well to investigate THOROUGHLY both views on the topic. This helps an intellectual avoid making innacurrate statements which will summarily result in lost credibility as one who has some knowledge of something.

Let's point out some examples;

Christianity and violence toward non-believers: I'm forced to question this statement immediately. Jesus did preach "meekness is not weekness", however He discouraged violence. He discouraged retaliation for that matter. In actuallity (to paraphrase) He said "I got your back yo. Don't sweat dem, 'aight. When dat day come, we gonna has some fierce shizzle up in Heav-inizzle and ya'll who hears me, be wit me. Dem who don't.. dey's faked mang. Werd." (Those who take up the sword against their enemy do so on thier own. It is better to let the Father in Heaven Judge them. ) Forgive those who sin against you??? c'mon negro.. where you pull this from man???

Anti-Scientific: Please, if I need to explain this, you haven't the first clue. Say it with me "Anti-Scientific" ... I'll give you a few moments to think about this........

.... there now.. dont' you feel stupid? If your answer is still no, I win for the reason that you've no clue what you're talking about. Not even in the slightest degree.

America Founded the freedom of speach.. remember? Used to be you couldn't do that in the King's land. The Prodestants (those are the Christians) came to the "New Land" and told his majesty to fak off. Then they wrote that .. oh.. what did they call it? That one letter where they said .. you can pretty much feel free to do whatever it is you wanna do as long as you're not hurting anyone / thing? BIll of (cleatus is ) Right(s)??? Then they ammended it a few times, and the rest of the free world tried to stop these violent bigotted homophobic, anti-scientific NONSENSE that encourages violence against nonbelievers, discourages condoms and tries to control via the fear of a deity believing people with .. bigotry, violence, science-less, fear of a person ordained by a diety - that was the king for those of you who aren't following this (cough 000 cough). Not that any of that last part has anything to do with Christianity, however, the statement of free country, etc - just felt didn't really seem appropriate.

There are a few other areas of your statement I would love to pick apart. Sadly, the rest of the community just skimmed and went "oh shit, words" and scrolled down, waiting for some funny quip. A few of you will read this I'm sure, the rest of you don't care. I appologize for yet another wall of words. As I've stated previously, I have an issue with ignorance.

Now for the disclaimer, my Grandmother is from GB, was born and raised on the Riviera. I love my Grandma, she's a proud memeber of the Daughters of the British Empire. Everytime I visit her I enjoy scones, trifle, and tea. I plan to take 45 days of vacation to visit Torquay and places east next summer. Some of the finest gentlemen on this game are from UK. I listen to Radio2 (used to be radio1, ty batty for bringing me up to speed), find victoria bekham one of the sexiest ladies alive, even tho I pronounce it toe-may-toe - toe-mah-toe sounds nicer, and generally find the brittish to be charming, decent individuals.

I hope this helps you in some way. :wub:

Cheers Mate.

ps - I've seen your pk video and I would like to salute your effort there. In the world of KE, you are something special.