ABORTION ?

[aligator]

Unfortunatly it doesn't state anywhere that I can't post my opinion, so what's wrong with what I said?

Posting own opinion =/= inferiority complex

As if somebody is interested that you are dreaming of becoming a doctor.

[tHeUnBeAtAbLe]

Posting own opinion =/= inferiority complex

As if somebody is interested that you are dreaming of becoming a doctor.

Wait so what is the topic actually about? Is it discussing the law, cause we know what the law states about abortion or is it posting opinions? Like... LOL.

[Thardy]

Abortion is both good and bad...
in sweden its legal...
for some examples, if someone gets raped and gets pregnant she would be able to abort
if its just a misstake by a couple i think they should'nt
but ofc its their choice, i would never think about abortion, dont care about the money bit, it will get sorted out in time

so im more with than against

[aligator]

Wait so what is the topic actually about? Is it discussing the law, cause we know what the law states about abortion or is it posting opinions? Like... LOL.

Unfortunatly it doesn't state anywhere that I can't post my opinion, so what's wrong with what I said?

That's what you said. You are one twisted fuck.

[tHeUnBeAtAbLe]

That's what you said. You are one twisted fuck.

I am not quite sure if you really understand the concept of the English sentences posted, or just English in general, because there is nothing twisted in what I said,... try reading it again, see if you understand it clearly now.

[0000000]

Have you ever seen the list of great people who were given up for adoption and became incredible people on this planet? What would have happened if they had been aborted.

I really hate this argument. You can't look at it retrospectively and say "if he was aborted we wouldn't have him". Of course it's true, but the corollary is that everytime someone jacks off into a tissue he's murdering millions of potential great people. In other words there is no way to know who will be successful until they are actually successful, the number of abortions is insignificant compared to natural miscarriages.

I am only playing devils advocate here, but really, people have a right to their beliefs, who the fuck are you to think otherwise lol.

Obviously everyone has a right to a belief, but not everyones beliefs should be respected equally. I think that any argument that isn't based on reason and logic has less merit. Most of the pro-life arguments are emotional and thus less valid.

[Rad_Archer]

I really hate this argument. You can't look at it retrospectively and say "if he was aborted we wouldn't have him". Of course it's true, but the corollary is that everytime someone jacks off into a tissue he's murdering millions of potential great people. In other words there is no way to know who will be successful until they are actually successful, the number of abortions is insignificant compared to natural miscarriages.



Obviously everyone has a right to a belief, but not everyones beliefs should be respected equally. I think that any argument that isn't based on reason and logic has less merit. Most of the pro-life arguments are emotional and thus less valid.

First of all, if you are going to argue about jacking off in a tissue, there is no use talking to you. What a ridiculous things to say.

Second of all, everyone is entitled to their beliefs but in most cases, unless you have an all authoritative government, you have different groups who believe different things. It's not black and white and it's far more complicated then a brief one paragraph summation.

One of the biggest reasons this becomes an issue at all is because of the forum in which it gets presented, and that is, politics. Politicians use this VERY heated debate to sway votes, period.

That said, you can't just say "everyone has equal rights" because you can't make a law that protects all sides of the issue. A person who truly feels the issue is immoral and akin to murder, if they genuinely hold this as a belief, they will protest abortions and do whatever it takes to "Stop murder" like they would try to stop any murder. On the other side you have the very very left who think a child at 12-13 should be allowed to walk into an abortion clinic and get rid of a baby with out even discussing this with their parents (and this could happen 2-3 times with the same kid). Now, a lot of people here will say she should have this right, but then you open many other doors in law, that of minors and adults. Laws and rules have implications and precipitate far more then the law or rule itself, it is the responsibility of citizens and law makers to understand the full aspect of making things so, not just "it's because I think..." that is not responsible and that is not how civilizations exist, when we live together in groups, we have to encompass a larger number of thoughts and ideas and find things we have to have and things we can come to a mutual compromise, if that is possible. This is why you have many political parties and divisions within.

This is why many people prefer a local law rather then an all encompassing federal law.

[tHeUnBeAtAbLe]

I would believe in a law that states that people shouldn't have children under the age of 18.
1) As I mentioned before, it wouldn't screw up your life up to that point, but it also leaves you with a chance that you might screw up after 18.
2) Simply looking towards the Earth's carrying capacity, not knowing how big of a population it can take, but knowing that we are definitely reaching the limit and reducing it yearly with the depletion of resources, would definitely prevent from such a close age between the families' generations, or in other words, not allowing you to have a family with parents that are less then 18 years older then the child, meaning less of a growth rate.

[Rad_Archer]

I would believe in a law that states that people shouldn't have children under the age of 18.
1) As I mentioned before, it wouldn't screw up your life up to that point, but it also leaves you with a chance that you might screw up after 18.
2) Simply looking towards the Earth's carrying capacity, not knowing how big of a population it can take, but knowing that we are definitely reaching the limit and reducing it yearly with the depletion of resources, would definitely prevent from such a close age between the families' generations, or in other words, not allowing you to have a family with parents that are less then 18 years older then the child, meaning less of a growth rate.

That would impinge on the Freedoms of the People. The only places that have things like this are in places like China, where you can only have one child. So, when you go to the orphan homes, it's FULL of little girls because nearly every family wants to have one male. Instead of keeping the girl, they just abandon it so they don't violate the law. Fucking sick.

[tHeUnBeAtAbLe]

That would impinge on the Freedoms of the People. The only places that have things like this are in places like China, where you can only have one child. So, when you go to the orphan homes, it's FULL of little girls because nearly every family wants to have one male. Instead of keeping the girl, they just abandon it so they don't violate the law. Fucking sick.

Sure it goes against our freedom, but within who knows how long, most precisely said within decades, you won't have much freedom either way. It is seen that there is a logistic growth in the population, so as the population size approaches the carrying capacity of its environment, growth becomes slower and slower due to the environmental pressures such as I mentioned before limited resources or accumulating wastes. This topic is a bit way off topic from what is being discussed, and doesn't critic the North American and European so much, but on the other hand the Muslim countries are the ones that just simply don't know how to stop reproducing, but even so, we could take steps towards decreasing the growth rate so that our exponential growth finally deceases or at least comes to a constant increase. But focusing on the topic more, even though some might believe it's "freedom", it honestly isn't,... since that child isn't an adult and fully aware of the decisions he/she makes until the age of 18, and even then there is vast variety of the population that still isn't making proper decisions. So honestly, you are telling me that if you heard a 17 year old say "I want to have the baby" that you wouldn't be against it? I'm sure you all saw that Jerry Springer video or whatever it was, that 15 year old girl who was having sex with a various amount of guys in school, and has decided to have the baby on her own... I mean that's just wrong, not only does it kill the parents to see that, not only does it ruin the rest of your life, it just simply is what makes the society seemed so screwed up of retarded decisions people make, which eventually accumulate and grab people's attention.

[SuperGhost]

I like where this thread is going.

[Rad_Archer]

Sure it goes against our freedom, but within who knows how long, most precisely said within decades, you won't have much freedom either way. It is seen that there is a logistic growth in the population, so as the population size approaches the carrying capacity of its environment, growth becomes slower and slower due to the environmental pressures such as I mentioned before limited resources or accumulating wastes. This topic is a bit way off topic from what is being discussed, and doesn't critic the North American and European so much, but on the other hand the Muslim countries are the ones that just simply don't know how to stop reproducing, but even so, we could take steps towards decreasing the growth rate so that our exponential growth finally deceases or at least comes to a constant increase. But focusing on the topic more, even though some might believe it's "freedom", it honestly isn't,... since that child isn't an adult and fully aware of the decisions he/she makes until the age of 18, and even then there is vast variety of the population that still isn't making proper decisions. So honestly, you are telling me that if you heard a 17 year old say "I want to have the baby" that you wouldn't be against it? I'm sure you all saw that Jerry Springer video or whatever it was, that 15 year old girl who was having sex with a various amount of guys in school, and has decided to have the baby on her own... I mean that's just wrong, not only does it kill the parents to see that, not only does it ruin the rest of your life, it just simply is what makes the society seemed so screwed up of retarded decisions people make, which eventually accumulate and grab people's attention.

The idea of population control is something I doubt you or I will see in our lifetime, in our countries. However, the problem occurs mostly in 3rd world countries or poorer areas rather then middleclass areas. It is a huge problem when someone who can't afford to take care of a small family has 8 kids, and even worse with many partners. This irresponsibility may need some laws and rules but atm, people will never give up their personal freedoms for the irresponsible few. The only way this will change (without policing people) is to educate and bring about change through other ways. If you look at the quantity of children middle class and up have these days its waaay less then just 2 generations ago. The average family in the 1800's had way more siblings then today and much of that had to do with the fact that people died easier and a lot younger then so you had lots of kids to keep your name/future going. Now people in this economic bracket have on average 1-2 kids and rarely more.

As far as kids having babies, what are going to do, enforce mandatory abortions??? Come on...

[tHeUnBeAtAbLe]

The idea of population control is something I doubt you or I will see in our lifetime, in our countries. However, the problem occurs mostly in 3rd world countries or poorer areas rather then middleclass areas. It is a huge problem when someone who can't afford to take care of a small family has 8 kids, and even worse with many partners. This irresponsibility may need some laws and rules but atm, people will never give up their personal freedoms for the irresponsible few. The only way this will change (without policing people) is to educate and bring about change through other ways. If you look at the quantity of children middle class and up have these days its waaay less then just 2 generations ago. The average family in the 1800's had way more siblings then today and much of that had to do with the fact that people died easier and a lot younger then so you had lots of kids to keep your name/future going. Now people in this economic bracket have on average 1-2 kids and rarely more.

As far as kids having babies, what are going to do, enforce mandatory abortions??? Come on...

I would, what would be wrong with that. Who would honestly argue with that point? Maybe it's just me but I think that at least 75% of the population would go for the idea.

As for population growth, that's exactly what I said in my previous post, it's not the North American and European countries that should be criticized, but it's mostly the Middle Eastern ones, or in other words, the 3rd world countries. It's true it probably won't effect me or you in this life time, but who knows, it might our children, and that's something to look forward to.

[Rad_Archer]

I would, what would be wrong with that. Who would honestly argue with that point? Maybe it's just me but I think that at least 75% of the population would go for the idea.

As for population growth, that's exactly what I said in my previous post, it's not the North American and European countries that should be criticized, but it's mostly the Middle Eastern ones, or in other words, the 3rd world countries. It's true it probably won't effect me or you in this life time, but who knows, it might our children, and that's something to look forward to.

First part, 75% - no way, you have no idea how off base your idea is.

Second - Your point is about laws, laws people have to agree with as majority or they revolt and become ungovernable. You can't just come along and tell people with 12 children they can't have children.

I think you take for granted your own freedoms.

[tHeUnBeAtAbLe]

First part, 75% - no way, you have no idea how off base your idea is.

Second - Your point is about laws, laws people have to agree with as majority or they revolt and become ungovernable. You can't just come along and tell people with 12 children they can't have children.

I think you take for granted your own freedoms.

Why not, it's only fair to everyone else in the world. I mean sure you can call me a communist if you really want, cause this is pretty much how the Chinese do it as well, but honestly, it does tick me off, and I'm pretty sure many other people that the Middle Eastern countries have families consisting of like 10 children. Not that I hate Muslims, but from seeing that documentary before on how Muslim reproduction rate is by far the largest in the world and they are taking over many countries in Europe, and knowing this does piss alot I'm sure. For one reason, I would like my European country to stay the way it was, an Orthodox's country consisting of Serbians and not of Muslims who can't be situated in their own country because of their population fluctuations. I don't even know what their clear reason on having so many children is, but I guess the only one that comes to mind is "the more children you have, the wealthier your family is"... kind of retarded as that's something that's been followed back 2 centuries ago.