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How far the US have change in 150 years

This is a discussion on How far the US have change in 150 years within the Off Topic forums, part of the Entertainment category; I don't understand how Americans can expect to unite the country when different regions have such different fundamental views. Honestly, ...
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  1. #31
    Natazaku
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    I don't understand how Americans can expect to unite the country when different regions have such different fundamental views. Honestly, the USA is being held back by the southern states; if your centers of education and tertiary industry (the north east and california) decided policy then the country would be in a much better condition. But, what Americans perceive to be virtues are in fact weaknesses (patriotism, faith, unregulated capitalism); I think that these things have to be overcome in the south before the country can move on and hopefully Obama can help that process. The cold war generation need to die out before hysterical and misinformed stigmas attached to socialism can be removed and policies can be judged on their real merits. By the way, your map is better viewed as religion versus secularism. The slave trade was justified by southerners for a long time by the bible, and it was merely a symptom of religious irrationalism.

    I think one real danger to the USA if it continued on its previous course was a fall into dictatorship, or more realistically an commercial oligarchy. We have a large proportion of the population that is blindly loyal to the president, and treats any disloyalty as "un-Americanism". This sort of extreme nationalism is analogous to that of 1930's Germany. This population concedes powers to bypass human rights and basic freedoms to their government in a time of emergency, naively believing that their right to bear arms is some sort of insurance against tyranny. This paradox was growing bigger and bigger during the Bush administration. Suppose a faction of Americans objecting to a specific unconstitutional tax refuses to pay it and recruits others into joining them. The government with so much centralised power, and such a climate of paranoia, can label the group un-American terrorists and inprison them indefinitely without trial. The constitution won't help you, they already found loopholes to be exploited decades ago. It isn't a coincidence that after the only two occassions the USA was attacked (pearl harbour and 9/11), grave human rights abuses took place on a massive scale.

    If you let the south dictate policy then you will end up with some christian fundamentalist draconian society with unlimited freedom until you decide you don't like the government, when it becomes unlimited penance. This is why this election was so important; it was the culmination of two conflicting ideologies: enlightenment, secularism, empiricism and humanism versus ignorance, fear, nationalism and superstition. I'm just glad the right side won. It didn't matter if Obama wasn't perfect (and he was nowhere near); when the alternative would be so catastrophic, one has no choice but to vote Obama. Hopefully the Republicans can spend the next 4 years returning to their roots and engaging in real adult politics. (I would be a classical republican by the way if you can believe it).[/b]
    You happen to know the main people who were opposed to slavery were CHRISTIANS? Ahh shit, asking a leftist about a history question is pointless. John Brown was a great man, oh my gosh and guess what? I'm a fundamentalist Christian! Paul Hill was great too =)

    Also, to call Republicans nationalist is so stupid. America for sure as hell is wrong on abortion and bombing Serbia.

    FYI Unregulated in Unregulated Capitalism is redundant, Capitalism is the belief there should be no regulation and the governments job is to only step in when natural rights are being infringed.

  2. #32
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    You happen to know the main people who were opposed to slavery were CHRISTIANS? Ahh shit, asking a leftist about a history question is pointless. John Brown was a great man, oh my gosh and guess what? I'm a fundamentalist Christian! Paul Hill was great too =)

    Also, to call Republicans nationalist is so stupid. America for sure as hell is wrong on abortion and bombing Serbia.

    FYI Unregulated in Unregulated Capitalism is redundant, Capitalism is the belief there should be no regulation and the governments job is to only step in when natural rights are being infringed.[/b]
    Slave owners defend themselves by saying they are converting people to Christianity (their slaves).

    If we really have a free market, then why are we stopping big corporations such as, Wal-mart and Costco taking over small businesses. The fact is, we were never a real capitalist society. The economy has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.

    Also, whatever happen to obligation to the poor? (Catholic teaching on social justice) http://www.osjspm.org/major_themes.aspx I'm atheist but I do agree with their teachings.

    Therefore I conclude Americans are retarded and I have to live with them...

  3. #33
    Zaczaco11
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    Slave owners defend themselves by saying they are converting people to Christianity (their slaves).

    If we really have a free market, then why are we stopping big corporations such as, Wal-mart and Costco taking over small businesses. The fact is, we were never a real capitalist society. The economy has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.

    Also, whatever happen to obligation to the poor? (Catholic teaching on social justice) http://www.osjspm.org/major_themes.aspx I'm atheist but I do agree with their teachings.

    Therefore I conclude Americans are retarded and I have to live with them...[/b]
    you are an idiot, slaves owners didnt defend themselves, what they were doing was "right" so why would they defend themselves? they bagged on the north for not having the slaves. its like trying to talk to you, you dont get it, wayyy close minded.

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    They defend themselves be saying what they do was "right", which is converting people to Christianity. What's your problem?

    Read the teaching of social justice, then you'll see why they need to defend themselves. Which means you didn't read my link on social justice

    "This principle is grounded in the idea that the person is made in the image of God" person = black people too which means Christian slave owners need to explain why they are treating a person that has an image of God as a slave.

    If I was close minded, why the hell am I learning about catholic teaching when I'm an atheist?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Bathory's Avatar
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    you are an idiot, slaves owners didnt defend themselves, what they were doing was "right" so why would they defend themselves? they bagged on the north for not having the slaves. its like trying to talk to you, you dont get it, wayyy close minded.[/b]
    Actually the same can all be said about you. Ppl defend themselves all the time for doing what they think is right, you don't even make sense when you write. You make my head hurt trying to understand you. I think you just like to flame ppl. Apparent by the fact you have nothing intelligent to say. Actually Kennie is very open minded. He is willing to listen to ppl, and is always seeking out information, and looking at both sides. Right or wrong he makes opinions based on his opinion. And thats more than most of you can say.

  6. #36
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    Actually the same can all be said about you. Ppl defend themselves all the time for doing what they think is right, you don't even make sense when you write. You make my head hurt trying to understand you. I think you just like to flame ppl. Apparent by the fact you have nothing intelligent to say. Actually Kennie is very open minded. He is willing to listen to ppl, and is always seeking out information, and looking at both sides. Right or wrong he makes opinions based on his opinion. And thats more than most of you can say.[/b]
    lol and not the facts, we allll know that

  7. #37
    Black Irish Senior Member sir_locksley's Avatar
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    They defend themselves be saying what they do was "right", which is converting people to Christianity. What's your problem?

    Read the teaching of social justice, then you'll see why they need to defend themselves. Which means you didn't read my link on social justice

    "This principle is grounded in the idea that the person is made in the image of God" person = black people too which means Christian slave owners need to explain why they are treating a person that has an image of God as a slave.

    If I was close minded, why the hell am I learning about catholic teaching when I'm an atheist?[/b]
    slave owners considered the black man to be sub-human, a different species if you will D: Part of the animal kingdom "God" put on the Earth for "Man" to look over. Obviously irrational.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Private's Avatar
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    Therefore I conclude Americans are retarded and I have to live with them...[/b]
    u dont have to do nething why ? because us retards are free and your welcome to gtfo

  9. #39
    Zaczaco11
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    u dont have to do nething why ? because us retards are free and your welcome to gtfo[/b]
    +1

  10. #40
    Natazaku
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    Slave owners defend themselves by saying they are converting people to Christianity (their slaves).

    If we really have a free market, then why are we stopping big corporations such as, Wal-mart and Costco taking over small businesses. The fact is, we were never a real capitalist society. The economy has always been a mix of socialism and capitalism.

    Also, whatever happen to obligation to the poor? (Catholic teaching on social justice) http://www.osjspm.org/major_themes.aspx I'm atheist but I do agree with their teachings.

    Therefore I conclude Americans are retarded and I have to live with them...[/b]
    Idiot, that wouldn't be a free market, ffs some people so fucking stupid. GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION=ANTI-FREEDOM.

    And fuck you, Costco fucking rules.

    The Catholic Church is biggest BS ever, John Paul and his damn inverted cross fucking throne. The popes always think they are some kind of king.

    Social justice begins with the INDIVIDUAL not the STATE.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Astro Da King's Avatar
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    obamanation

  12. #42
    Senior Member Bathory's Avatar
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    Idiot, that wouldn't be a free market, ffs some people so fucking stupid. GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION=ANTI-FREEDOM.

    And fuck you, Costco fucking rules.

    The Catholic Church is biggest BS ever, John Paul and his damn inverted cross fucking throne. The popes always think they are some kind of king.

    Social justice begins with the INDIVIDUAL not the STATE.[/b]
    lol, you are really immature. He never said bad about Costco or any claims for you to get all defensive about.

    Maybe I'm being too sensitive cause I'm a girl... but I don't understand all the hostility and need to cuss at each other. Why can't you have a debate and argue? But some of you are so shut off. If anyone makes a post making claims, using sources, and complete sentences with decent grammar, its like it fries some of your brains. You come back with calling names, and ranting in incomplete run together sentences. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree in the end. When Kennnie debates with you guys, talks to me about the post and ideas he is always doing it with a smile and seems enthused.

  13. #43
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    No need to use perfect grammar on an online forum. I think we will survive if someone types a run on sentence or a fragment. Even thought I like to type correctly It's not something I'm picky about.

    Like Bathory said, in the end we are going to have to agree to disagree. Agreed?

  14. #44
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    You happen to know the main people who were opposed to slavery were CHRISTIANS? Ahh shit, asking a leftist about a history question is pointless. John Brown was a great man, oh my gosh and guess what? I'm a fundamentalist Christian! Paul Hill was great too =)

    Also, to call Republicans nationalist is so stupid. America for sure as hell is wrong on abortion and bombing Serbia.

    FYI Unregulated in Unregulated Capitalism is redundant, Capitalism is the belief there should be no regulation and the governments job is to only step in when natural rights are being infringed.[/b]
    Many errors here which I shall correct:

    The movement to abolish slavery was generally pushed by secularists (people smart enough to transcend religion are smart enough to transcend race), and was generally resisted by southerners who used scripture as justification among other things. Of course there were exceptions, but that was the jist of things. I think you're a bit late if you're trying to preserve a clean history for Christianity, because it has been in tatters for centuries.

    By the way, I'm not left-wing at all. I guess you would categorise me as a free thinker somewhat like Christopher Hitchens; I lean left on some issues but for the most part I believe in small government and individual freedom which makes me closer to the Republicans. Blind adherence to one political ideology is the reason this topic exists. It is the same as England 50 years ago when the working class blindly voted labour and the upper blindly voted conservative. Don't be a sheep.

    Again, you probably misunderstood me, but classical Republicanism is not nationalist. The current Republican party bears little resemblence to their original ideology and have instead resorted to appealing to the basest of demographics (ie: you) for votes. This is why intelligent republicans spent the last few months jumping ship to support Obama out of desperation at the nomination of Palin and the negative conduct of the campaign (appeals to patriotism, scare-mongering and ad-hominem attacks).

    As for unregulated capitalism, it is just adam smith's theoretical ideology and does not exist in reality. Therefore one has to differentiate between the pragmatic capitalism of most of the western world, and this theoretical unregulated capitalism. Americans don't realise just how regulated they are, and it is impossible to discuss regulation intelligently because it was (until the credit crunch) a taboo.

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    Let me summarize it for zero, Americans are retarded. Even with Bush, there are still regulations at its minimum for businesses. How about Patriot Act anyone?

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