A look into the Furture - TAX on game trades

[BigOZ]

Looks like they want us to pay income tax on our trades soon.

I lol'd good luck.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7746094.stm

Pce

[giga]

the people in gold farming companies are making their salaries with money thru paypal
i can see why they would crack down on this

[Rad_Archer]

This is already going on (or trying to be implemented) in China. It mostly has to do with sales of virtual items.

Any one on here has seen my rants and raves about the legality of items, scamming as criminality, etc.

Some people need governments and laws to keep them in line. This is one more step towards true black and white laws for those of you who can't figure shit out on ur own lol.

[BigOZ]

the people in gold farming companies are making their salaries with money thru paypal
i can see why they would crack down on this[/b]

It opens the door though.

Means that selling a char or items on KO could be considered a form of income and should have been taxed.

This is already going on (or trying to be implemented) in China. It mostly has to do with sales of virtual items.

Any one on here has seen my rants and raves about the legality of items, scamming as criminality, etc.

Some people need governments and laws to keep them in line. This is one more step towards true black and white laws for those of you who can't figure shit out on ur own lol.[/b]

Riddle me this.

Its not illegal to sell or buy virtual items it is only against the TOS of a particular game and the only punishment is account cancelation.

How can you tax something that is not illegal to do yet has no structure in the sense that you cant issue a tax invoice for it when selling it to another player and they cannot claim the tax input threw the govenrment becuase the item is the games and cant be sold in the first place.

Reality virtal trading is like ill give you money and you give me control of something. You dont own it and neither does the seller.

It doesnt really exist.

[giga]

It opens the door though.

Means that selling a char or items on KO could be considered a form of income and should have been taxed.
Riddle me this.

Its not illegal to sell or buy virtual items it is only against the TOS of a particular game and the only punishment is account cancelation.

How can you tax something that is not illegal to do yet has no structure in the sense that you cant issue a tax invoice for it when selling it to another player and they cannot claim the tax input threw the govenrment becuase the item is the games and cant be sold in the first place.

Reality virtal trading is like ill give you money and you give me control of something. You dont own it and neither does the seller.

It doesnt really exist.[/b]

im not really sure what your getting at
but what i meant was, the gold farmers are working just like any other job, the only thing is that their paychecks are tax-free
and ofcourse the government doesn't like that

(i can only imagine how many gold farming companies there are in china)

[KungPaoChicken]

How can they keep account for what they sell? Since it's all done via paypal and all you have to do is check the goods box for why you're sending money.

[BigOZ]

im not really sure what your getting at
but what i meant was, the gold farmers are working just like any other job, the only thing is that their paychecks are tax-free[/b]

That side is different.

If they are being employed by the website /gold company then they should be on the books anyway.

If they are like many that farm it themselves and then sell it to a website I still dont see how they could tax it without regulating it and the idea of regulating the gold farming industry is laughable.

That being said this is China and they just make up rules but for the States of other countries alike it would be more complicated.

Technically they would have to bring in a law that if they made over a certain amount per year they needed to declare it and pay tax. Otherwise, one of trades like on ko4life would attract tax as well.

Bottom line is its to hard to track any of this down. Ppl use websites, forum's MSN, ventrillo to make these trades.

[SillyHo]

I will look for the article, but what I read elsewhere revolved around the license agreement mmorpgs have. Basically it is considered a lease, that is paid in full for a virtual item. Leases are still subject to taxation. ANother good example for all those who say "its only pixels" is the music world. As all my songs sit on my PC, they are also simply pixels...yet we see how governments have cracked down on them.

[KungPaoChicken]

I will look for the article, but what I read elsewhere revolved around the license agreement mmorpgs have. Basically it is considered a lease, that is paid in full for a virtual item. Leases are still subject to taxation. ANother good example for all those who say "its only pixels" is the music world. As all my songs sit on my PC, they are also simply pixels...yet we see how governments have cracked down on them.[/b]

Music isn't described as a virtual item which does not really exist in anything, except the game itself. h34r: They're also not pixels, they're sound waves

[Speed]

yes but the difference with the music on your pc is that u can do basically anything u want with them
and its YOURS , on your PC and you can listen/pass into your ipod/burn in a cd/delete or keep it and you have full control

on the other side Ko items arent yours, they belong to K2 , and sure u can do things like use/trade/sell/delete them but when u keep something u dont expect it to last forever , k2 can take it away anytime they want, so if they make this "legal" items would have to be forever lol , or until you decide to destroy them

[BigOZ]

I will look for the article, but what I read elsewhere revolved around the license agreement mmorpgs have. Basically it is considered a lease, that is paid in full for a virtual item. Leases are still subject to taxation. ANother good example for all those who say "its only pixels" is the music world. As all my songs sit on my PC, they are also simply pixels...yet we see how governments have cracked down on them.[/b]

Interlectual Property.

And they werent looking to put a tax on it. They were looking to secure a way for there interlectual property from piracy.

To a game developer in game gold has no real value. The game does not loose money because they still pay there subscriptions.

With music if you download the music the owener of said interlectual property loose money from a potential sale.

To the lease comment:

The "lease" would only be access to the game you are not provided any right or guarentee to be able to obtain gold at a particular level. There is no sublease arrangment between a gold seller and gold buyer.

In the real world a lease give u access to a property. If youy use that property to run a business you pay tax on the money you make but not becuase you have a lease its because a legitimate business is subject to laws whihc require you to pay tax.

Selling gold is not legit or regulated nor is there a law to cover it and that is the issue.

[ashet]

Every profit in real money is taxable.

Gold Famers don't just work - they cheat!

I suppose cheating would eventually become illegal. Only if a cheat K2 excluded kept avoiding exclusion. And a court placed an injunction on them. UNLIKELY the court would want to get involved.

Illegal activitys are still subject to taxation. Drug dealers, prostitutes,hit men are all supposed to pay thier taxes.

K2 help eveyone by making gold to USD illegal. Cos then Noah has no financial value and cant be taxed or considered an asset for capital gains.

Legally babasellers have the problem not babashoppers.

[Private]

fyi in the us already you should be claiming nething over a 1,000 a year made online which is considered hobby tax or self employment tax

the tax there talking about is an additional tax and is already being tried in the united states by liberal governors atm all that comes to mind is new york but theres a few others trying a 9% sales tax online meaning u buy plat premium on a pc in new york u pay 9% to whatever dumb ass is trying the tax bill