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Somebody dropped a brick on Bush head again ?

This is a discussion on Somebody dropped a brick on Bush head again ? within the Off Topic forums, part of the Entertainment category; Bush has no right to say who can be in the EU...
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  1. #16
    Psy
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    Bush has no right to say who can be in the EU

  2. #17
    Arthurios
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    Dont compare Turkey with Poland and Bulgaria/Romania, Ive been in those country's and I need to say they look poor compared to Turkey and Turkey also has a better economic growth than those country's. And yes its also diplomatic but whats wrong with that? Europe will become 2x stronger with the army of Turkey in the eu. And I dont think allot of people will go to other country's for work, like I said Turkish economy is growing allot, i'm going there every year and every year its different, infrastructure is ALLOT bettere compared to 10 years ago and the buildings etc. Go look Istanbul on google for example all those skyscrapers etc. The only bad thing about Turkey is the East of it, you can compare that district with poland and bulgaria etc. but the western side is very modern.

  3. #18
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    GDP per capita

    poland: ~$16000
    bulgaria: ~$11000
    romania: ~$10000
    turkey: ~$9000

    And as comparison

    Germany: ~$34000
    UK: ~$35000
    Netherlands: ~$38000

    Also, turkey's growth is slower than those countries (2007):

    Turkey: 5.1%
    Poland: 6.5%
    Bulgaria: 6.1%
    Romania: 5.9%

    The average pole is almost twice as rich as the average Turk. The problem is compounded by the fact that the Turkish population is bigger than poland, bulgaria and romania put together. I think that turkey should be given more years to improve their economy, and modernise their education, human rights and politics. Europe doesn't need a massive army. Europe has several nuclear deterrents and a strong fast reaction capability. Having a huge army serves no purpose in modern warfare.

  4. #19
    Arthurios
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    yes ofcourse more years, its not that they join the eu tomorrow or something. Probably 2012/2015 or something.
    And you are not right about your amounts, atleast show your source.

    http://www.cylist.com/List/400300820/
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...y_GDP_(nominal)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_GDP_(PPP)

    both wiki links are the same btw, just the ranking is a bit different. I dont know why though the year and source are the same. But you can get my point vieuwing those links.
    I know I know wiki is not the most reliable source but something like this is reliable enough. I am Turkish and living in the Netherlands, Turkey is just 1 place lower than NL in that ranking.

    \\http://www.economywatch.com/world_ec...key/index.html

    Here you can see in 2004 a growth rate off 8.9 %
    that was 2004 , 4 years ago and in those 4 years allot changed already. Turkey in the EU would also be easier for the big amount of european tourist that visit Turkey every year. Like I said before, the only problem is that the east of Turkey is poor compared to the west. The difference between the poor and rich are huge, but a few years in the eu would help Turkey and after that the EU could see the value of Turkey itself. You gave Poland as example before, when they joined the eu the county improved allot. If Turkey joins, the eastern part will improve allot aswell.

    Edit : the gdp you gave could be right, but its a bit more then 9000$ average, but dont forget the housing prices are lower than europe and food etc. also so its cheaper to live there.

  5. #20
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    My figures are from 2007 so of course they are the most accurate. The EU is not a bank to make poor countries rich. It works only when there is relative parity between countries. This is why there are entry criteria for joining, which turkey has not met. Already, the UK and Germany are giving more to europe than they receive, while other countries are taking more, so it is not fair. I do not like paying my taxes to other european countries.

  6. #21
    banaanc
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    Its not only about economy, its about culture, Turkey is Islamic, EU is mostly Christian.

  7. #22
    Arthurios
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    Yes, but isnt that racism then? If its about culture? I thought everyone is the same in the EU..

    zero.. Like I said before give your source please.

    If Turkey joines the EU, It would a big benefit for the netherlands, ( I say netherlands because I live here) Netherlands would get 1.8 billion more out of exports to Turkey.

    The benefit of the eu will not be that high, but everything is welcome, for Turkey it will be very good the first years. So whats wrong with helping people and other country's ?

    And the capita income is 29 % higher than romania and 32% higher than bulgaria

  8. #23
    Psy
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    Yes, but isnt that racism then? If its about culture? I thought everyone is the same in the EU..

    zero.. Like I said before give your source please.[/b]
    you brought up the racism argument. stop. you fail.

  9. #24
    Arthurios
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    I edited my post. And yes I brought it up but am I right or not? In netherlands everyone is the same according to the law no matther what religion you have or what skin color etc. I thought thats the same in the eu.

    You failed in being a smartass.

    There are obviously more positive things than negativ things about Turkey joining the EU or not. Only thing I saw is the culture difference what is pretty bullshit to me because I've been in Turkey every year and its more Western than for example Islamic.

    And the other negativ thing was the economy, but lets wait and see in 5/10 years how the economy is then.

    Everyone (almost everyone) dislikes things about turkey just because allot of kids foktop a game. Dont argue and complain about people and a whole country just because of a game. Be realistic.

  10. #25
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    The positives are for Turkey, the negatives are for western Europe. Thats just how it is. My source is the economist. The problem with having more muslims in europe is that they do not integrate with european values. They do not accept compromises with their religion and do not accept criticism. You only have to watch the news every day to see this. Like i already said, they are not compatible with a secular democracy where everyone is equal.

  11. #26
    Arthurios
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    The most positives are for Turkey yes, but its not that negative for Europe, If you dont say your source I call it bullshit. I dont care about it anyway. According to you the difference isnt that big. Anyway im out of this topic today, going to watch Switsterland - Turkey Ill post something tomorrow if there are good arguments about this subject.

  12. #27
    banaanc
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    bringing here racism is about the same as saying men are sexist cause they pisses while standing, there are differences that are not racist or whatsoever. Its even differences between ppl who live in/out of towns, different nationalities in one country, but in that case differences would be too big.


  13. #28
    banaanc
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    Western Europe cant support both Turkey and Eastern Europe, fastest when there could be thoughts about Turkey joining
    is at least after 10 yrs, when E-E could catch up W-E, but i doubt that cause theres too much differences between Islam and Christan cultures, both can work as good partners, but joining ... naah.

  14. #29
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    Here you go whining about "racism" again. This just proves my point. It is impossible to have a proper discussion about these issues without some idiot shouting racism for no reason. And this is the same thing people see when they look at Islamic countries, it is impossible to criticise their cultures without being called racist. It is ok to say the British drink too much, or that French social welfare brings too much job security, but when Turkey's culture is questioned it is racism. Pathetic. I already stated my source is the economist, it is a UK weekly political magazine.

  15. #30
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    I don't want to go off-topic but i think this is a example of what could happen if Turkey joins. Like people have said millions will flock to different countrys seeking better pay. Look at the Mexicans ect. cross our border illegaly. They ruining the U.S. in my opinion because in a few years our country will be more spanish then white/english!!! So i wont go off-topic too much but i just wanted to compare this situation and what could happen in the other situation. I do not think people in europe want this burden on them.

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