What do u hate from ko4life?

[DarK]

I liked the post about the 10 word minimun, but I was thinking maybe a little less than 10, maybe 5, somewhere around there.

[akutee]

From a technical point of view we can:

• Make ko4life invite only (if u invite a scammer, u are banned aswell)
• Make ko4life registrations approved by admins
  
• Add account age as a requirement to post on market place
• Use a reputation mod so buyers rely on reputation to pick a buyer/seller
• Add some sort of bidding mod to keep track of trades

so on and so forth. Sure, at the end it will all depend on the buyer/seller IQ, but still we can help make the decision easier to minimize the chance of getting scammed.

But before we change anything, I wanna hear all ideas related to this and other problems so we see the big picture and try different things.[/b]

well.. there should be exceptions, because theres this 13 or 14 year old kid on pathos section.. hes an awesome kid, every1 on the server loves him, and hes really trustable, and crap :P



i just thought of an idea ... however.. this would take a lot of time for the mods

*not sure if this goes against kol or ko4life terms & violations tho*

Everytime sum1 is selling for USD, get the market mod, or trade mod, to check if they actually have those items. THe mod would contact the person in game, and the seller would have to show the mod the items in game. AFter that is done, the mod can verify the contents of the items being sold, and can post on the topic, vouching that those items actually exist. And for those people that dont want to show the mod, or have items sealed or smth, then the mod can post something like "Watch out, the seller may or may not have these items, since he wasnt able to show me in game"


Well.. that probably wouldnt work.. since takes so much time.. and that would make ko4life helping in USD trades or something?... well... just an idea.. ^^


There should also be a reputation like Ebay.com or BasilMarket.com (a trading site for another game). The market mod can add/remove the reputation based on proof/evidence of a trade with known people. So if someone trades with a random person, they wouldnt get higher reputation, but if they trade with someone taht is a well known GG in game, then maybe they would get higher reputation?

[camaz0tz]

From a technical point of view we can:

1. Make ko4life invite only (if u invite a scammer, u are banned aswell)
2. Make ko4life registrations approved by admins
3. Add account age as a requirement to post on market place
4. Use a reputation mod so buyers rely on reputation to pick a buyer/seller
5. Add some sort of bidding mod to keep track of trades

so on and so forth. Sure, at the end it will all depend on the buyer/seller IQ, but still we can help make the decision easier to minimize the chance of getting scammed.

But before we change anything, I wanna hear all ideas related to this and other problems so we see the big picture and try different things.[/b]

1. time restraint on this? what if u invite a person then a year later they scam someone? O_O u still banned? lol
3. too easy to lie about age...would be a wasted effort to add this
4. this COULD work if its done properly and paired with other features...like if its paired with invite only and delayed acception to market section(like ur account has to be X months old to even SEE the market section) then it could work cuz then accounts would be more permanent, but as it is now accoutns are worthless so rep is useless




really when it comes down to it ko4life cant cure stupidity and stupidity is at the root of all scams

[Eric]

1. time restraint on this? what if u invite a person then a year later they scam someone? O_O u still banned? lol
3. too easy to lie about age...would be a wasted effort to add this
4. this COULD work if its done properly and paired with other features...like if its paired with invite only and delayed acception to market section(like ur account has to be X months old to even SEE the market section) then it could work cuz then accounts would be more permanent, but as it is now accoutns are worthless so rep is useless
really when it comes down to it ko4life cant cure stupidity and stupidity is at the root of all scams[/b]

Banning users if they invite scammers would be done on a case by case basis, extreme discrection would have to be taken by the person who gives out the invite, obviously if a friend is a scammer and you dont know and he scams you or he scams someone else we aren't going to instantly ban the person who invited the scammer, but an investigation will be done and depending on the circumstances we will go from there.

The comment about account age I believe Devile is referring to your actual ACCOUNT age not the age of the user, meaning how long ago you created the account, thus brand new users cant use the market.

Can you make it possible to start a new system, where ppl who can't use WU, can use Paypal for items mostly?

Get a set of Moderators, which once money is paid the items r kept at the mod till money r cashed, then the mod once he sees that transfer of money is successful he gives the items to the buyer. Looks simple but no1 trusts any1 that wants to pay with paypal, and i dnt wanna trust any ppl ingame with buying me the stuff...more ppl involved, more risks

Obviously it would mean that the moderators have to be super trustable with this!

This would be a win win situation. SO at every section of every server, there should be a division, a forum for WU/paypal and a forum for WU only ppl.

If you would work diligently this could work, and little by little ppl would start feeling safe using Paypal...and this would be open to every1 not only USA, Sweden etc...THIS WOULD ALSO STOP MOST OF THE PAYPAL SCAMMING!!

Hope this wouldn't be another ignored post![/b]

We do not support USD trading.

I will leave Devile to make the decisions and answer your questions via PMs, however I'll chime in here and there.

[Pajatso]

1. time restraint on this? what if u invite a person then a year later they scam someone? O_O u still banned? lol[/b]

yes, but.. the person who invited someone must have a right to terminate the membership or put the user to "SUSPICIOUS" list ( maybe instead of "Member +" it would say "Suspicious member" ) or just inform that is not in contact with the person anymore ( and moderators would decide if that user would be removed, spamming invitations and "drawing them back" would result getting all invited persons and the inviter to the suspicious list ( just because that gives to a paranoid person like me a reason to believe its not good idea to deal ppl like them ( too lazy to explain the hole pattern )))

3. too easy to lie about age...would be a wasted effort to add this[/b]

You really misunderstood/-read this one.

really when it comes down to it ko4life cant cure stupidity and stupidity is at the root of all scams[/b]

or the idiotism.


Sorry for:

1. Steping on everyone's foot
2. Happy english
3. You decide

[DarK]

1. time restraint on this? what if u invite a person then a year later they scam someone? O_O u still banned? lol
3. too easy to lie about age...would be a wasted effort to add this
4. this COULD work if its done properly and paired with other features...like if its paired with invite only and delayed acception to market section(like ur account has to be X months old to even SEE the market section) then it could work cuz then accounts would be more permanent, but as it is now accoutns are worthless so rep is useless
really when it comes down to it ko4life cant cure stupidity and stupidity is at the root of all scams[/b]

I think, all devile meant by it was how old your Ko4Life account is, thats what i got from that post anyway

[Devile]

Yes, account age, not the user age. Right now the main problem with the scammers is that even if we catch them, they simply change identity (new email, new account, new msn) and they do it again and again. If we at least say 6 months+ to get into the market place, the frequency of scams reduces fast. If we add invites, reputation, approved registration, ip checks on new accounts, etc. we make their life a lot harder. Scams wont stop since its an IQ problem with buyers/sellers, but at least we minimize it.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot more ways to fight this. I'm more than welcome to hear ideas.

[ResserGD]

Market mods dont need to know anything about the server. They just need to control flames, close threads when the trades are done, close multiple threads of the same user etc.

Does a mod need to know how much are shells +7? not really.

does a mod need to put attention in a thread where someone is saying: fuking sell me shells +7? Yes.[/b]

Firsly addressing this, Market Mods DO need to know about the server.

If the market mod didnt play the server, then when someone pops up saying S> Level 80 ... xxx, they won't know if the guy is legit or not. They wont know how he got it or who he was or anything about him.
We wouldn't know which items are reasonable to sell on that server.
We wouldn't know anything about the average level on the server, or how many high class items there are, or how many of x uniques there are.

Its important to know ALL of these things because it prevents alot of scamming and any duped items being sold, or any unreasonable items being sold.

--

About the scammings, i like the admin approvel idea, but this has its problem. Everyone who wants to join will always have 0 posts. How do u know if its someone who just made another account or not? Sure u can do IP checks, but u wont know if they are using a proxy... Its back to square 1.

I understand invites only would also be a problem, but i think only people who have been members for xxx amount of time AND have xxx minimum number of posts can invite people. Sure u can say people will spam just to get their post count up, but its not gonna help because they wouldnt have been members long enough. Also admins and mods can easily see who is spamming to get their post count up. BUT this also has its own problems. This is only a short term sollution. Eventually old scammers WILL get posts up and make the dates and we would be back to square 1. Also some scammers only pick certain targets. like there may be some out there with high post counts, and they scam someone with 0 posts. No one will ever kn ow it happened becuase the guy with 1 post would simply be ignored unless he had proof.

So, i personally think there isnt any clear cut sollution to scamming. Its like real life. U can have a police force but there is only a limit they can do. I hate to say it but ko4life is the same. Mods can only do a certain amount of stopping. Alot of it relys on you members to know who u are trading with, and check and double check them to make sure they are legit. Some people say u shudnt trust anyone, but i believe that u cant get anywere without trust. I just think u got to know who u are dealing with before u trust them. OK we can ban usd trades from people with 0 post counts, but at the end of the day, there will still be new members who want to sell their chars, and fact is ko4life is the best place to sell stuff for USD.

SO i see 2 options really. 1. Either go 1 way and say, its up to u members to make sure u dont get scammed, and make sure ur on the lookout for these scammers. or 2. We could completely ban USD trading in all servers, either for everyone, or just for low post/join date people.

Ive always said, i want to stop usd trading here. Sure some people wanna sell their accounts for USD, but then again, when ppl do USD scams, we are talking a real crime that u can go to prison for. Its stealing money, real money. We gotta take steps or we gotta completely leave it. There is no inbetween.

Even this wont stop scammers but i think it would reduce it.

Just my opinionns =]

[Iyegamer]

Yes, account age, not the user age. Right now the main problem with the scammers is that even if we catch them, they simply change identity (new email, new account, new msn) and they do it again and again. If we at least say 6 months+ to get into the market place, the frequency of scams reduces fast. If we add invites, reputation, approved registration, ip checks on new accounts, etc. we make their life a lot harder. Scams wont stop since its an IQ problem with buyers/sellers, but at least we minimize it.

I'm pretty sure there's a lot more ways to fight this. I'm more than welcome to hear ideas.[/b]

Yeah i can't agree better with Devile, I.P. checks should be the priority. I think time issues will hinder scams but there is a way around it also if ya brainstorm a bit.

Obviously I.P. check can be defied by having more than 1 computer, but few ppl have that and they could only do that except if ya go to an internet cafe. So I.P. variabilty should also be monitored. If some1s I.P. would be variable all users should be warned in some way.

This would be gr8 if made asap...

Another advice could be to change the format to a database and instead of making a topic only, one could search the database obviously searching for an item and the topic would be linked to it. Traded Items would be erased to avoid confusion. But this is just a kind of plus feature we dnt really need it.

P.S. I think low post count would be stupid since most ppl use pms (would definitely increase free bumps XD)

[wideload620]

Why not create a Flame/Spam room disable post count on it and they can go for there lives and vent it out as to not drag it in to other sections. Also have it auto-prun every 2weeks-month to save some space

Account Age id say around 1month before able to post in such a section called "USD/WU Trade" make it a seperate section so that players dont have to keep asking usd/igc/igi/wu/paypal that would cut down on the amount of posts. As well make it easier for those looking to buy from outside the game.

Also post a mod on both the Game Questions & Tips and Knowledge Base or try and get some control of the +1 gg comments, A polls room could also be a option just to create a fun area.

As ive done with a mod on the offical forums have a draft sticked above sections like clan recruitment showing player how to write a clan recruitment post, the same could be done for Character guides,Cheaters section, Market area and so forth. (If you wanted i can do this up in about a hour and a example is found at http://forum.knightonlineworld.com/forum_e...howtopic=95509)

Have some genral Ke information stickied such as current Gm's, LW,DLW , Ed, so on and so forth.

Try and make the Search and Server Statis page ethier bigger brighter something to make it stick out and people before they start making thread as the Servers DOwn? when server's UP???.

There was a comment in here made about the Kingship threads i dont think these should be banned or locked the encourge players to vociesthe pro's/con's of the canidate and help them come to a diction as well bring new members and possible donaters to the forum.

There amy be more but atm im playing cya rounds.

[festo]

vBulletin the way forward!!!!

[Devile]

What do u think about this:



its a vB mod that keeps track of trades feedback. Has a ton of settings we can change so it gives a lot of useful info. We can restrict the amount of rating per day a single user can give for example. If someone tries to fake its reputation, u can easily see who is giving him ratings and if u see the same users over and over each day, then obviously something is going on. Or even if u see ratings too frequent from ppl u never heard of, then u can report the guy and we can look in the case. No way someone does that many trades a day without being well known by the server community. This combined with mods that actually know their server paired with proper tools to check users, could make a huge difference in trading.

Just an idea that could be mixed with many other things here to improve ko4life trades.

PS: IP check can also verify if the IP is real or comes from a proxy. There are ways to tell if someone is using a proxy. Not 100% effective, but helps.

[vandy_vs_gator]

Thats what ko4life needs Devile. Something like this. Kinda like ebay you know. Do not have a vouch section. I think the one we have now should be deleted due to the fact people have even been vouched on by MODS and they still scammed. Inorder to leave feed back you have to have done some kind of USD trade with the person. Not any in game trades because people will just say yeah done ingame trade with him hes 100% GG. So if you want to trade in game with the person and you don't trust him then you can easily get a trade MOD to help the trade.

Your on to something Devile and with little edits like you said, it will be pro.

[akutee]

would it somehow be possible to make a site like: www.basilmarket.com ? they have an awesome ebay like thing for people to buy/sell. and they have a forum too....... would be hard though right?


But... the + and - reputation thingy... sum1 can just keep 'trading' wiht his friends to boost his reputation ?

[Devile]

Yes he could, but then u wont trust him. Why would u trust someone who has 30 trades with the same 2-3 guys everyday? Wouldnt that be fishy enough to not trust him at all? Besides we can limit how frequent u can add rating to a guy.

Bottom line is he wont be able to this overnight. He will need time to fake his own reputation, and even then, u have the tools to decide whether he is trustworthy or not. He fucks up and scams someone, he will have to do this shit all over again cause we will nail him.