Horde Rogue

[iiason]

decided to give Alli the boot..coz all my friends are in Horde >.<

Undead? Troll?

suggestions?

[Dark3lf]

i&#39;ll be gettin an Alli rogue, but i was wondering wat Alli class is the best for rogue.

i was reading this forum, and it said, it was Night Elf, coz of the extra 1% dodge and ShadowMelt.

however, my friend said it was usleless, coz the 1% dodge is shit, and in ShadowMelt, u can&#39;t move, so in PvP, peoples will know where u r.

i want a rogue for PvP.

also, wat spec is the best for PvP?

all help appreciated.[/b]

Nelf > Human > Gnome > Dwarf

1% dodge rating isn&#39;t shit, everything that helps you to avoid hits is a big plus. And shadowmelt has no use since you&#39;re a rogue because you have stealth.
Here are few specs you might wanna test:

Originally posted by Wowhead
-- PVP --

Combat mutilate
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecREMoizVohdVbbV

A slightly varied mutilate spec from the one mentioned previously, this one takes talents vital to PVP before PVE.

Subtlety mutilate
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecREMoizVoZEMc0Mh

Subtlety mutilate is considered to have less damage efficiency than combat mutilate, but in lieu of this it provides added survivability and control through the talents it takes in the subtlety tree. It offers slightly less in-combat mobility than combat mutilate due to the lack of improved sprint.

Heavy assassination mutilate
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ecREGsidVoZEM

A slight variant of subtlety mutilate which drops more points into assassination in order to increase control through poisons.

ARPrep
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhdVbrVt0M0oZxMjoMuRox

ARPrep (adrenaline rush preparation) is a build which provides extraordinarily high sustained damage and good survivability in the one package. It saw a significant nerf with the 2.3.2 patch though, and has been dropped in favour of HShS by many rogues since.

Combat maces
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebonZGcV0bVt0rhRt

Combat maces offers high sustainable damage, incredible burst during AR and the benefit of mace spec&#39;s stun procs. Combat maces&#39; lower mobility and reduced survivability make it less attractive than HShS or ARPrep for most arena play, although the right team composition can allow it to shine.

HShS
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ebRiZZxMjoMGRoxst

Short for hemo shadowstep, since 2.3.2 it has been accepted as the best PVP spec available.

CHShS
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fZhdVbbVZxMjoMGRoxst

CHShS is the combat variant of HShS.

DShS
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0gcoxZZEMcc0GRsxst

DShS is the shadowstep daggers build. It&#39;s considered ineffective for arena play.

[Fag]

Gnome > dwarf > human > NE
This goes for rogues, and everyone knows why.
Gnome - escape artist, when you use your CoS/sprint/pvp trinket you cant escape roots/slows so here is your ass saver.
Dwarf - when there&#39;s a rogue vs rogue fights dwarf have a huge advantage with his poison/bleed immunity. Well there&#39;s also 10% armor bonus but for rogue it wont do much.
Human - sword/mace specs, increased stealth detection. Not a huge advantage.
NE - 1% is useless cuz you have evasion (double evasion with preparation).

[Dark3lf]

Gnome > dwarf > human > NE
This goes for rogues, and everyone knows why.
Gnome - escape artist, when you use your CoS/sprint/pvp trinket you cant escape roots/slows so here is your ass saver.
Dwarf - when there&#39;s a rogue vs rogue fights dwarf have a huge advantage with his poison/bleed immunity. Well there&#39;s also 10% armor bonus but for rogue it wont do much.
Human - sword/mace specs, increased stealth detection. Not a huge advantage.
NE - 1% is useless cuz you have evasion (double evasion with preparation).[/b]

Every race has their advantages over another. I wouldn&#39;t pick anything just because it has better stats over other. Just pick the one you will be happy with.

[elektriK]

Human or Gnome, forget the other two.

If i had a chance to re-do it i would pick human, not only for the sword spec, but perception gives such a huge advantage to a human rogue. Whenever you fight another stealth team, especially against a rogue your bound to get the opening sap which is a huge thing in arena.

I played a Gnome and its nice, you can break ice nova, entangling roots, hamstring, earth bind totems.

Both Human are Gnome are good but id prefer human. Gnomes look better though ^_^

[iiason]

Human or Gnome, forget the other two.

If i had a chance to re-do it i would pick human, not only for the sword spec, but perception gives such a huge advantage to a human rogue. Whenever you fight another stealth team, especially against a rogue your bound to get the opening sap which is a huge thing in arena.

I played a Gnome and its nice, you can break ice nova, entangling roots, hamstring, earth bind totems.

Both Human are Gnome are good but id prefer human. Gnomes look better though ^_^[/b]

lol, the idea of a 3-foot killin machine xD. awesome.

[Renzuk]

humans are the best race for most things on ally

perception.. expertise buff... yeah

[Yatta]

Disagree on shadowmeld not being a huge bonus. If you&#39;re able to vanish at low health and you get somewhere to eat in an arena match, providing you&#39;re specced properly, you have to wait 6 seconds to restealth while eating. With shadowmeld you can do it immediately, and then stealth once its off cooldown. It&#39;s obviously only useful if you arena with a mage or in another pvp environment that allows you to eat your own food.

Human rogues are very easily the best for both pve and pvp. Sword specialization makes a human rogue capable of doing more dps than any other race in the game with identical situations. Expertise is a very valued stat and there&#39;s no reason to pass up on it when its free. It reduces your chance to be dodged or parried which will cripple your dps if you often are. Avoiding misses, dodges and parries are essential in maximizing your damage dealt. In pvp, a human rogue has a tremendous advantage over non human rogues and druids with perception. Its a huge amount of increased stealth detection basically. Getting a sap on the other rogue in an arena match or finding the druid w/o having to wait for him to pop in the place he wants to be can and will win you games.

A lot of people will argue the importance of escape artist for gnomes but I just don&#39;t see where they&#39;re coming from. I actually play a gnome rogue and while I do enjoy escape artist, I really don&#39;t think it outweighs perception and sword specialization. In pvp, you&#39;ll most likely spec for an ability that allows you to vanish twice, assuming you don&#39;t wait and aren&#39;t in there long enough for the normal cool down of it. Given the current state of vanish, it is most reliable for removing movement impairing effects, which is the same thing escape artist does (if you&#39;re lucky it will stealth you too). Cloak of shadows timed properly can be used to remove all the magic effects you may have as well as removing most movement impairing effects since several of them are magic. You have several outs without escape artist. Typically anyone who puts a movement impairing effect on you can easily reapply it so very often removing it won&#39;t get you too terribly far. You occasionally get slowed in pve but typically you aren&#39;t the only one so a mass dispel or waiting it out is often a practiced option. As a rogue you have a ton of mobility so I don&#39;t feel it as particularly important.

I&#39;d only pick a gnome for looks, since they&#39;re the only class that looks good wearing a helmet that isn&#39;t s3 or t6 since those really aren&#39;t much of a helmet at all. Either way you can turn the appearance of a helmet off.

[iiason]

Disagree on shadowmeld not being a huge bonus. If you&#39;re able to vanish at low health and you get somewhere to eat in an arena match, providing you&#39;re specced properly, you have to wait 6 seconds to restealth while eating. With shadowmeld you can do it immediately, and then stealth once its off cooldown. It&#39;s obviously only useful if you arena with a mage or in another pvp environment that allows you to eat your own food.

Human rogues are very easily the best for both pve and pvp. Sword specialization makes a human rogue capable of doing more dps than any other race in the game with identical situations. Expertise is a very valued stat and there&#39;s no reason to pass up on it when its free. It reduces your chance to be dodged or parried which will cripple your dps if you often are. Avoiding misses, dodges and parries are essential in maximizing your damage dealt. In pvp, a human rogue has a tremendous advantage over non human rogues and druids with perception. Its a huge amount of increased stealth detection basically. Getting a sap on the other rogue in an arena match or finding the druid w/o having to wait for him to pop in the place he wants to be can and will win you games.

A lot of people will argue the importance of escape artist for gnomes but I just don&#39;t see where they&#39;re coming from. I actually play a gnome rogue and while I do enjoy escape artist, I really don&#39;t think it outweighs perception and sword specialization. In pvp, you&#39;ll most likely spec for an ability that allows you to vanish twice, assuming you don&#39;t wait and aren&#39;t in there long enough for the normal cool down of it. Given the current state of vanish, it is most reliable for removing movement impairing effects, which is the same thing escape artist does (if you&#39;re lucky it will stealth you too). Cloak of shadows timed properly can be used to remove all the magic effects you may have as well as removing most movement impairing effects since several of them are magic. You have several outs without escape artist. Typically anyone who puts a movement impairing effect on you can easily reapply it so very often removing it won&#39;t get you too terribly far. You occasionally get slowed in pve but typically you aren&#39;t the only one so a mass dispel or waiting it out is often a practiced option. As a rogue you have a ton of mobility so I don&#39;t feel it as particularly important.

I&#39;d only pick a gnome for looks, since they&#39;re the only class that looks good wearing a helmet that isn&#39;t s3 or t6 since those really aren&#39;t much of a helmet at all. Either way you can turn the appearance of a helmet off.[/b]

so, wat race, for pure PvP?

ARENA, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5

[PuppyDog]

Human.

[elektriK]

so, wat race, for pure PvP?

ARENA, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5[/b]

Human is best, then Gnome.

[Boyce]

Racials will be changed in wotlk so you may want to change your mind, take a look NewRacials

[CurLy]

Yeah they nerfed the shit out of perception
Before it was 50 points of stealth detection for 20 seconds, now its 5 points of stealth detection forever...
But we gain that neat little Feign death thing, if that lets you drop combat (not sure if it does) could be very uselful for rogues to restealth, or healers to drink :<

And as a main tank, raid pisses me off ----> lolfeigndeath ---> Wipe. All your raids are belong to me xD


Gnomes got their escape artist fixed so it doesn&#39;t fail anymore.

So still, either roll a gnome or a human.

[PuppyDog]

Undead

[0000000]

Undead is best currently and probably will still be in WotLK. Belf will be close in pvp though, if you are mutilate. The single best use for WoTF is against psychic scream, since you cant prevent it, and it is getting a horror effect next patch so WoTF is much less useful. On PTR i trinketted a psychic scream and then i thought i was deathcoiled right afterwards but it was the same ability.

If you are a raider then troll or orc is best.