Apex Forever | LIGHT-FARM | UNIQUE CONCEPT

[Kallop]

Not defending anything or anyone, I'm just trying to figure out why those who are still playing are having different opinion than those who are posting negative stuff on this forum.

Those that are still playing will not recognize the persisting issues, because they don't care. Many of those players enjoy the fact that genie farming exists and is the smartest way of obtaining coins/items. Of course they wouldn't complain about not having to do anything if they like earning money while doing nothing. The issues brought up by people here are from those players who played for a long time, ignored the issues for a long time, then complained about them and eventually quit because nothing was done about said issues. I could write a post about everything in detail, but it doesn't seem worth my while. The bottom line is that out of the 12-14h I played everyday for 3 months, 10h was wasted doing mostly nothing. It doesn't take a genius to figure out there is an issue, if you just played the game for a week or 2. The server had a very mixed bag of players in it's community and there's a portion who wish it was 83 cap +9/+3 from day 1 and items were in sundries, but there was a much larger player base that wanted the server to be much harder from day 1. I imagine the people staying are the ones that enjoy the light-farm concept, which is fine since people have their own opinions, but the people that left were dissatisfied with various things that should've been addressed, even if the server intended to stay light-farm.

GM power abuse was very minor. The only issue with GM powers was that certain Turkish GM was pretty much racist towards non-Turkish players and came up with nonexistent rules and abused his powers to help Turkish players. The case is rather minor, so it's not really worth bringing up.

[YouGotPwndByMyAss]

1. Release 83 cap
2. Give red pot, duration pot, blue pot to everyone via Sundries / Pus make sure everyone has it or delete it! else people will constantly cry about it for example 8v8 always excuses blabla.
3. Nerf stunrate for godsake after 2018 August ressistance destroying patch.

You have good client running still. Also good money sinks goodjob but please add those 3 options above.
We are bored of hitting nothing on eachother and getting forced into 8 man parties because of no damages.
Many people are quitting because of those reasons so is my clan almost everyone from Revolution sold their stuff to save their real life money and ingame KC because of the huge drop in population on this game.

[Wendy]

1. Release 83 cap
2. Give red pot, duration pot, blue pot to everyone via Sundries / Pus make sure everyone has it or delete it! else people will constantly cry about it for example 8v8 always excuses blabla.
3. Nerf stunrate for godsake after 2018 August ressistance destroying patch.

You have good client running still. Also good money sinks goodjob but please add those 3 options above.
We are bored of hitting nothing on eachother and getting forced into 8 man parties because of no damages.
Many people are quitting because of those reasons so is my clan almost everyone from Revolution sold their stuff to save their real life money and ingame KC because of the huge drop in population on this game.

i agree. also i think you should increase a little bit drop rate from Chaos stone. not dramaticly ofc, but there must be a way to bring people to bowl.

[TabbyCat]

Owners were surrounded by Yes men and 1 of the 2 didn't like the idea of somebody who had a different opinion or challenged the biblical view of the way the server should go and always focused on how something was said rather than it's actual context (classic denial of the point, "yeah man but it's the way you said it"). The GMs weren't utilised properly from the start which only led to a downfall of communication (won't start on how this could have been solved), owners spoke and catered to a few and ignored some bigger clans because some people shouted and they didn't like that. Running a server is CUSTOMER SERVICE, you obviously don't have to take abuse, but you gotta bloody listen.

One was more open minded, but still not enough to keep the community going from strength to strength. It ALWAYS had the possibility to cater towards every single type of player, but unfortunately this was never met. Certain things were attempted to remedy this situation (through the suggestion & implementation of community group) which unfortunately only went to some clan leaders who don't speak for everyone, therefore blindly carried their own agenda in the discussions - these were made public so can't deny it).

It's probably way beyond a proper repair now due to the time elapsed and the state of the server, but something to think about in future for them.

[cserepesistvan]

The owners/admins/gms are clearly clueless, its way beyond repairable state now imo. The server WAS a perfect example how to fuck up smth in every possible way. I guess they just dont give a single shit anymore, since the ~50k USD they earned from the relaunch was good enough for them.

[Manhattan]

Yea well, same old story...

These are owners that didn't use their own product. They have not tested it themselves. All of these issues could've been easily fixed if both of them and some GMs made a clan and played their own server for like 2 weeks. This is even more important in their case since they have no experience with KO gameplay.

If they did this they'd have noticed the simplest issues that kill the server and make it look so poorly designed, such as:

1) Excessive amount of useless quests that polute our view;
2) Excessive amount of non storable items that makes farming experience worse;
3) Useless event rewards;

And of course, the worse issue of them all:

4) it's an AFK farming server. You have every single spot of 1 hit mobs being taken with people on GENIE while not having anything, absolutely nothing to do for better advantage with active farming. To kill harder mobs, solo or in party, for better reward. Everthing literally provides the same amount of coins when you account for external factors.

And the amusing part is the effort with "coin sink" rofl. This is all beyond stupid.

So yeah, as the guy above mentioned, they're in this comfort zone living with zero energy and attitude, choosing to embrace their low morale in the community and a server living in eternal mediocrity.

And the situation is quite bad population wise btw, the negative effects started to kick in. For the first time last week I saw a collection race with 0 rewards.

[SacredHealDane]

The GM event yestarday was insane , If you guys keep up the events its gonna stay alive.
Sad part the CSW was an hour later , and there was not even 40% of the population that was in CZ before, dissapointing.
If you guys would came up with some sord of event during the CSW to save the population lose would a been an excellent move on your behalf.





1,000 posts!!!!

[TabbyCat]

Imagine I post the above information/review and I get banned from their discord less than an hour later (without posting anything).

Mad.

[Nath]

It's probably way beyond a proper repair now due to the time elapsed and the state of the server, but something to think about in future for them.

Actually, there is nothing to think about in the future anymore, this was it, this relaunch was their chance to make things right.

I've been fully supportive with this server in the past, in fact (in my eyes) the old server was perfect, until they went down certain path and took some very questionable decisions that killed the server economy, thus slowly killing the server population.

For people like me who enjoyed the old server so much and knew how great it was, who was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and try the server one more time, this was quite disappointing, mostly because I see the same pattern as before, bad and questionable choices on how to run things.

It has always seem to me like Apex is a pet/side project of them, something they enjoy working on (not even for the money) but don't really care too much to follow up or dedicate more time into it.

Issues I currently see with the server:
- AFK genie farming being more profitable than manual farming (and there is no remedy for this anymore, the damage to the economy has been done already)
- Untradeable items as rewards. In a game where upgrading your gear means being lucky with a chance % at the anvil, this untradeable rewards are actually punishing and not rewarding.
Say you're trying to upgrade an item for your class and you fail but then you succeed upgrading an item for a different class, at least you got something out of that anvil run, you can sell and repeat until you get what you want. With these items, you can't, you actually loose coins upgrading them (I just delete these items, most people do I am sure).
What about those untradeable dark mythril fragments that turn your tradeable armor into untradeable? Jesus.
- The +1 fiasco. Many things can be pointed out for this, and people will have their own opinion, in my particular case, the certificates requirement kill it for me.

always focused on how something was said rather than it's actual context

Actually, this is relevant. You can't be rude and yell at people and expect them to listen willingly and be nice in return, even if it is their job to maintain certain degree of tolerance, it's just not the way things are.

We're all grown ups here (well, some of us at least, others love to prove they are not). You're pointing out that they should filter proper criticism out of these smart-ass comments people do about their server, well, how about the people start filtering out the clever comments out of their feedback and just do the constructive criticism as well? Maybe being polite both ways would actually help to improve things, and if it doesn't, well at least have the certainty that you did what was right and they simply chose to ignore it.

Every time I get into the Apex forums and find a section titled "Report a cheater" filled with stupid post like "racist message", "insult me", "said my mom is fat", "hurt my feelings" I feel like crying, for fucks sake. I'm not excusing Aesteris and Twostars, but kind of feel sorry for the stupidity they have to deal with every day.

Anyway, already extended too long, I know how this story ends, is chapter two after all, foolish of me to think it could have been different this time.

[retail]

4) it's an AFK farming server. You have every single spot of 1 hit mobs being taken with people on GENIE while not having anything, absolutely nothing to do for better advantage with active farming. To kill harder mobs, solo or in party, for better reward. Everthing literally provides the same amount of coins when you account for external factors.

This was one of the biggest problems for me including our clan. Absolutely ZERO reason to go for any kind of 8 man activity farm at all for over 3 months and the only response we got was that it does not have to be the best farm in bowl, and that we should be happy its a possibility to farm there(wich in reality you'd just be wasting time farming there instead of going solo farm).
You'd be making 4-5x times the money by going Treant genie/afk than trying to conquer bowl farm with a party manually.
Now all those clans that actually had a setup of 8 ppl ready to farm/pk are long gone from the server and we are left with the solo players.
After all those clans left they now realised its time to buff the 8 man farm to bring some activity in to bowl but sadly its 2 months late.
Also this server have the worst customer service i've ever witnessed. Not a single fuk is given by those admins, or they just have 0 clue how to run a server more than the coding. 0 creativity on this server.

[MileS]

Yea well, same old story...

These are owners that didn't use their own product. They have not tested it themselves. All of these issues could've been easily fixed if both of them and some GMs made a clan and played their own server for like 2 weeks. This is even more important in their case since they have no experience with KO gameplay.

I guess thats the problem of most Knight Online servers...
(btw: nice Pink Floyd pic... )

[TabbyCat]

Actually, there is nothing to think about in the future anymore, this was it, this relaunch was their chance to make things right.

I meant for any future re-launches etc.

Actually, this is relevant. You can't be rude and yell at people and expect them to listen willingly and be nice in return, even if it is their job to maintain certain degree of tolerance, it's just not the way things are.

You ignored the latter part of that quote I never said people were yelling or being rude in any specific way. This comment was aimed at people who know the whole situation I'm referring to and saw the kind of responses the admins got. Some were constructive, some were not, however both were ignored because in any situation if person A (nice guy) knew person B (mean guy) they were tarnished with the same brush.

You are right about not accepting it, hence why I said that But you have different degrees of rudeness, call it a 1-10 scale. When running a business you can safely ignore anything 7 and above, in this instance they ignored anything 2 and above.

[Decerto]

Well you had dozen of people telling you not to implement genie. I myself would be playing right now if genie was not in the game. Don't want to be the "I TOLD YOU" guy,but WE TOLD YOU . I had huge respect for twostars, he was one of the "legendary" dudes on ko4life for me. But seeing how he ran this server and how he dealt with the issues (shitty posts,banning people,etc...) I lost most of the respect,if not all for him. You can clearly seen hes just like your any other KO owner (other than nickos maybe) that launches a server,makes a shitload of money and then forgets it ever existed.

[twostars]

I could write a post about everything in detail, but it doesn't seem worth my while.

I would very much appreciate it if you did, though. I have been trying to compile a list from what's been said but it's... unfortunately very difficult when few are willing to actually state what their problems actually are.

Really, the main issue I can pull from the last few pages tends to be summed up as people preferring to use Genie over actually playing the game to farm (and a select few people taking advantage of it currently not enforcing limitations, which we've stated we'll be changing soon). That's... it, as far as any concrete impactful issues go.
For this, I know Aesteris is looking at something in addition to the intended IP restrictions - which, for the record needs to be handled with more nuance than we could enforce previously, and still needs further nuance. There are portions of our community sharing the same IP addresses (as well as a couple of cases of family members), which presents challenges with these things (more specifically with events, but generally extends to this as well).

As much as "disabling Genie" seems like a good, easy option, the reality is that will just be replaced by bots. As stated, Genie is just a legal Koxp - something we have control over. That is no secret.
I believe the problem lies more with the autolooting than the bot in and of itself, and I believe - if I recall correctly - is what Aesteris was looking at.

There were also a few extremely vague mentions to the "+1 fiasco", which I frankly do not understand (and has yet to actually be explained).

For the record, let me explain the reasoning behind why it works as it does, just to clear up any misconceptions.
As implemented by other servers, these upgrades are simply either 1. RNG, or 2. guaranteed.

Now, a lot of you guys have repeatedly stated that in general, you prefer more farm content, a reason to keep playing.
A reason to keep running events, a reason to keep playing the game in general.
We have an existing currency which is starting to waste slots in your inventory, with its use declining as time goes on. Ouch!

Really, progress should never be halted by RNG. That's just bad game design. I'm sure we can all agree on that, at least.
Now, for those that want to just rush in an attempt it, you can risk it if you like - that's fine. Not all pieces are worth it.

But for guaranteeing upgrades for the pieces you really want to be upgraded, this is where the Apex Piece comes in (... and yes, I hate its naming too =[).

So the idea is, you can work towards it by playing the game, using the existing currency you've already been attaining & freeing up slots in your inventory and slowly progress that way.

Obviously it's not intended to be the sole reason to do these things, all it aims to do is complement it, and to that end it - in my mind, at least - fits in nicely.
That is why the Apex Piece exists and why +1 upgrades work this way.

I hope that clears up any misconceptions about how or why we chose to make them behave like that.
Truly, there were no other motives there.

In the interests of having an actual helpful discussion aimed at improving the server, I would very much appreciate it if someone who's reported a problem with this particular issue (or any other, for that matter) could elaborate on them.
Preferably on our forums, but here's better than nowhere.

Thanks again for your feedback.

[Ching]

It wasnt the genie or the autoloot persay, it was the fact that people were abusing it outside of cz, it shouldnt of been disabled for every other zone that wasnt cz, lets see the fuckers try to afk with the 10accs in cz with the raids, too much work for them for them to run to the spot just to die instantly. That would of fixed it