Hypocrites

[moemoneyman]

didn't u jus get off a 30 day ban

only action i can really think ko4life can take is to make sure the farmers aren't selling through here and players aren't reselling through here because the gbs are being farmed with koxp so from ko4life angle it makes the gbs illegal similar to a duper trying to sell there items here and is no reason to let someone go and buy a +10 raptor from the duper and sell here same if they take that raptor and trade for other items dont think they should be allowed to sell here either

reminds me of that fag that was selling duped gb through here on diez forever then came clean bout it or watever and was banned like x1000 times[/b]

What about buying from them and ruining people's trade by encouraging to buy from them? What is your opinion on that?

[Private]

What about buying from them and ruining people's trade by encouraging to buy from them? What is your opinion on that?[/b]

wdf do u mean 'encouraging'

[giga]

if they're selling gold bars for 10$ and everyone on ko4life is selling them for 15$, why the hell would i pay an extra 5$ for the exact same thing

yea chinese gold farmers are annoying when ur trying to make a new char, but they only macro the low level mobs. once you get higher level and are killing stronger monsters, you dont even see them

[Rad_Archer]

So when you buy mp3s are you also purchasing the license for the song? No. You are only purchasing the right to listen to the song. Let me educate you to the word "copyright". When you buy a book, you don't really own the actual book (the material). What you own is a shell. You can't re-publish the book. You can't make copies of the book. You can't even quote the book without citation. What you can do is you can resell the shell, but not the book. The book is owned by the company who has copyright to it. Once again, back to my point, what I doing is not selling the item, all I am doing is selling the time spent collecting the item. The item is still "owned" by K2. Actually, its not, they are purchasing the right to use the item from the people who own the copyright, but we will say they own it for simplification. Therefore, you can't really sell something which isn't yours. Unless I hack their server, steal the data of their items, and use it in my own mmorpg game, I have done nothing to violate their copyright. Use a better example, if you want to "bash" my IQ. I award you with no points.

If K2 can actually do something about people "selling items" then they could've shut this forum down a long time ago. They know we exist. They also know we "sell items" for real currency. The forum is hosted on invision; they are the worst people to deal with when it comes to copyright infrigement. They will shut your down faster than you can say "its the popos slow down".[/b]

That's funny since I say you have valid points and never once quoted you as a scammer. I was saying "scammers" in general and not ever referred to you at all, making only the point as a discussion in ur topic. I was referring, however, to a scammers mentality, why in the world you took that one tiny piece of my response makes no sense at all nor why you would defend it lol, unless in fact, you are also a scammer...which I did not know. You getting defensive about it and not seeing that also does make me question your IQ, since that is in fact a description as such. Point for me for sure, but ur the only one counting.

Let's face it, if one could get items without scamming and didn't need to lower him or herself to the level of doing so, he wouldn't. If you want to argue ethics, morality bring it. The fact that they are scammed items implies that they did "belong" to someone. If I have a character in KO, it is still my character and because K2 owns the property rights, doesn't imply that they can just give it away to whomever they choose for no reason. The buying and selling of anything virtual will have legal ramifications in the future. Criminality is not just an idea defined by law.

The fact that people can buy these "virtual" copyrighted items and trade them helps K2. People invest money in a game knowing at some point, they can get something (whatever that may be) in return or out of it. Of course, this is not every single person in the game but it is more than fair to say this is a large majority. How many anti baba's have you seen quit KO and baba their characters and items when they leave. I can name 7-10 of them alone who when they decided to leave server or game asked me to buy or sell their items from them and every one asked if I would not tell anyone who they were because they still wanted to be known as anti babas. But once again, people buy with the expectation of receiving the item, hence the term ownership. K2 will never completely outlaw babaing, why? Because if they do a HUGE majority portion of their paying players will leave period. But is there a difference between getting items in the game and selling them and a team of hackers exploiting the game, yes of course.

[moemoneyman]

That's funny since I say you have valid points and never once quoted you as a scammer. I was saying "scammers" in general and not ever referred to you at all, making only the point as a discussion in ur topic. I was referring, however, to a scammers mentality, why in the world you took that one tiny piece of my response makes no sense at all nor why you would defend it lol, unless in fact, you are also a scammer...which I did not know. You getting defensive about it and not seeing that also does make me question your IQ, since that is in fact a description as such. Point for me for sure, but ur the only one counting.

Let's face it, if one could get items without scamming and didn't need to lower him or herself to the level of doing so, he wouldn't. If you want to argue ethics, morality bring it. The fact that they are scammed items implies that they did "belong" to someone. If I have a character in KO, it is still my character and because K2 owns the property rights, doesn't imply that they can just give it away to whomever they choose for no reason. The buying and selling of anything virtual will have legal ramifications in the future. Criminality is not just an idea defined by law.

The fact that people can buy these "virtual" copyrighted items and trade them helps K2. People invest money in a game knowing at some point, they can get something (whatever that may be) in return or out of it. Of course, this is not every single person in the game but it is more than fair to say this is a large majority. How many anti baba's have you seen quit KO and baba their characters and items when they leave. I can name 7-10 of them alone who when they decided to leave server or game asked me to buy or sell their items from them and every one asked if I would not tell anyone who they were because they still wanted to be known as anti babas. But once again, people buy with the expectation of receiving the item, hence the term ownership. K2 will never completely outlaw babaing, why? Because if they do a HUGE majority portion of their paying players will leave period. But is there a difference between getting items in the game and selling them and a team of hackers exploiting the game, yes of course.[/b]

I am sorry I completely misunderstood your post. I actually thought you were were refering to people "selling virtual items" as "scamming K2". As I said, it doesn't, you are not really selling anything but your time. Scamming is bad. People shouldn't scam other people. However, I must say, not once in this topic have people mentioned anything about scamming. So by bring that point into play, it causes misunderstanding. It's like cats and dogs.

K2 wont outlaw "babaing", because they can't outlaw "babaing". Do they even hold copyrights to the game? I know they are paying MGame/Noah system in order to license the game in Europe and North America.

[ashet]

K2 wont outlaw "babaing", because they can't outlaw "babaing". Do they even hold copyrights to the game? I know they are paying MGame/Noah system in order to license the game in Europe and North America.[/b]

Is babaing external USD sales?
I'm sure if people put USD prices on merchant chat messages they would get banned.

K2 are not the police but they are god in thier own server.

Were you not here when they just deleted every bi-frost item?

[moemoneyman]

Is babaing external USD sales?
I'm sure if people put USD prices on merchant chat messages they would get banned.

K2 are not the police but they are god in thier own server.

Were you not here when they just deleted every bi-frost item?[/b]

I am not sure what you mean by "external USD sales"?

Yes I agree K2 owns everything; we are just paying to use their services. Therefore, K2 can delete bitfrost items and noone can do anything about it.

Lets get back to the point:

Hypocritical people who complain about gold farmers and then buy their gold/encourage people to buy their gold, on a forum that has banned the sales of farmed gold. What should happen to these people?

[Felix]

Thanks a lot man. I wasn't sure. I know your busy and I understand that. It was a small matter (my post, not this) but I feel that this thing is getting out of hand.[/b]

Moe I am here to help the best I can and I am alway intrested in doing my bit too make these forums a safe and honest place for people to do trades.

I'd rather have 100 pm's a day showing me links to people supporting farmers that I can bann rather than people feel strangeled to say what is needed to be said about them here.

[SilverBlade]

yea chinese gold farmers are annoying when ur trying to make a new char, but they only macro the low level mobs. once you get higher level and are killing stronger monsters, you dont even see them[/b]

they are also very annoying when you are trying to farm crystals and all ther spots are macro'ed on and that is actually something you need at higher lvls.

[moemoneyman]

if they're selling gold bars for 10$ and everyone on ko4life is selling them for 15$, why the hell would i pay an extra 5$ for the exact same thing

yea chinese gold farmers are annoying when ur trying to make a new char, but they only macro the low level mobs. once you get higher level and are killing stronger monsters, you dont even see them[/b]

The reason they are 15 dollars and not 10 dollars is because that is what their worth is. Would a Viper really be that special if everyone was driving it? Nope. Similarly, if everyone is buying more coins, then the worth of coins would become useless. These people will never stop because they are making a lot of money. In fact, more people are looking at these guys and are saying "hey let me do that too it looks like a lot of money" and they are starting to farm also. You only see 2-3 main sites because the independent farmers are selling their gold to the main sites for wholesale. The main sites are then reselling the coins to you. There are atleast 60 - 70 companies who are actually doing it and the number is only increasing. Do you want to play in a server where a piece of shell +1 is 100 - 200 mil coins? You may not see these farmers after you become higher levels, but what about the people who have just started playing the game?

[SillyHo]

Had real life issue that resembles this one pretty close. Shady guy, looked to be homeless, came up to me on a jobsite asking me if I wanted to buy a skillsaw for 15 dollars. He plugged it in, it worked fine, looked to be in great shape but it wasnt new. I knew he had stolen it from another site, its a common problem, and when I passed on it he produced a bag with a bunch of brand new tape measure, extra blades for the saw still packaged, a couple of drillbit cases, and some various other small items all brand new. While he was selling everything at well below store costs, I passed on his "deals" and advised my apprentice to do the same. When the guy walked off my apprentice asked me "Why the hell didnt we buy that skillsaw, was super cheap, and you lost that tape measure on the last jobsite, you coulda replaced it". I looked him dead in the eye and told him that if no one bought his shit, people wouldnt have stolen my tape measure off the last jobsite. I would prefer to go to home depot and buy it for more, than help that guy get enough money for another hit of meth.

Everyones morals vary from person to person, but that is where my line in the sand is. I dont oppose people buying, or selling, GB, items, etc for USD. I just prefer to stay away from the thieves of the game when I can.

[Magicality]

You are only helping the Chinese feed his kids by buying his goldbars, you are not helping the game[/b]

Since your post is about ethics, and this sentence pretty much sums up your ethics, all I can do is laugh. Not that I condone your reasoning, but to speak out so bluntly makes you look just a slight bit pathetic.

[moemoneyman]

Since your post is about ethics, and this sentence pretty much sums up your ethics, all I can do is laugh. Not that I condone your reasoning, but to speak out so bluntly makes you look just a slight bit pathetic.[/b]

I am sorry that you feel that my post was blunt and/or pathetic. Let me sugar coat it for you. Guess who will get a kid's meal tonight? Chinese Farmer Jr. Pada pa pa pa, he is probably loving it.

[JoshBFD235]

if they're selling gold bars for 10$ and everyone on ko4life is selling them for 15$, why the hell would i pay an extra 5$ for the exact same thing

yea chinese gold farmers are annoying when ur trying to make a new char, but they only macro the low level mobs. once you get higher level and are killing stronger monsters, you dont even see them[/b]

actually, now they have started moving up to some of the higher lvl'd mobs, like in bifrost I've run into a party of 7 noob archers and 1 noob ice mage killing lust or envy or greed....and one day while we were farming greeds, pressed 'Z' and hit targeted Ultima. Thought wtf, and pushed r and ran to the edge of the greed section next to the lava and saw Ultima down in the lava being killed by these noob chars. And like Silverblade said, while yes they do farm mostly the low lvl mobs, even as high lvl chars you run into a problem when you come to your next skill quest and need 30 of each gem but your shit outta luck when you go try to farm them, since the gold farmers are at all the spots where the gems drop, so then you have to go to moradon and buy the gems from the gold farmers which only helps them out even more.

[Pedigree]

As long as ppl keep buying gold from Chinese the problem will only get worse. It's a dead circle.

more buyers = more gold = more $$ = more macroers.

so if you are buying form them then you are directly supporting macroing.