How to mute a retard spamming my mailbox ? :S

[FatM4n]

Originally posted by Futile Rhetoric+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Futile Rhetoric)</div>

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Futile, can you prove that your religion does excist?

If so hit me with hit :wub:

A lot of religions exist. It's quite easy to prove that, I'm sure you're more than capable.[/b]

Funny part is that you dont give me soome proof, so i guess you cant give me proof
You alwasy tend to change the subject

[sir_locksley]

Originally posted by 0000000
I cant believe i am reading this. You know something could not possibly happen yet it is true? This is completely irrational. Religious truth differs from scientific truth yes, because religious truth is not truth it is BELIEF. You have a warped perception of truth, its scary to think that you do not question what you are told, and you accept it as truth even if it is completely irrational.

no this is wat i believe myself =/ fact and truth are different in my mind religious truths have spiritual meaning like explaining creation and such... yes religion is a complicated thing and it isnt a science its sumthing u know from experience and feelings it comes from the heart

religion is irational get used to it.

[0000000]

i am used to it, you pretty much agreed with me. Religion is irrational, thanks for admitting that. Its good to know that i am one of a small minority of enlightened and sane people. Its a shame there are not more of us around.

[sir_locksley]

honestly every1 has a different thought on the subject but there are phenomenon that cant be explained by science and thats pretty much where religion comes in

honestly all i care about in ppl is that they have an opinion on religion... if they dont believe in anything... if their muslim... if their christian... if their so fucked up they believe in the KO Gods Pathos and watever the other one is =/ as long as they have an opinion to me thats all that matters and i dont criticize other religions but i will try and explain my beliefs

wow havent seen a topic this deep in awhile T_T

[sir_locksley]

Originally posted by 0000000
i am used to it, you pretty much agreed with me. Religion is irrational, thanks for admitting that. Its good to know that i am one of a small minority of enlightened and sane people. Its a shame there are not more of us around.

religion is irrational cuz to believe in sumthing like most religions do u have to throw away the rational thought that has been pounded into ur head since pre-school

its sumthing u realise in ur own way in ur own non-rational thoughts inside ur head :P

[Jediay]

Seems to me , this isn't on topic

[Futile Rhetoric]

Originally posted by 0000000
if you can prove that a supposedly perfect religious text contains any fallacies then logically it is no longer perfect, or divine.

Not every religious text claims to be "perfect", and a lot of these inconsistencies can be explained away. When you realize that these religious texts are most likely just allegorical in nature, the whole issue becomes far less pressing.

Originally posted by Futile Rhetoric
Yes they try and fail, they answer nothing.

They certainly do, as long as you choose to believe in them. To you, religion is meaningless -- to a believer, it is not. When discussing religion (or anything else for that matter), you make the a priori choice to consider empirical data to be the only permissible evidence; as I argued earlier, this is just as fundamentalist a stance as any belief in religion. You believe that the universe must be qualifiable and quantifiable through empirical means -- there is some merit in this belief, but that doesn't make it any less of an assumption on your part.

I could explain simplistically how atmospheres are formed around planets but it is rather complex.

So? Religion mostly is not concerned with how things are, as I've stated earlier. Religion steps outside of existence, while science per definition is limited to it.

You are looking for meaning and purpose behind such things as our sky.

Actually, the meaning behind existence would be more precise; the sky being part thereof.

What religious people have a hard time accepting is that our universe is essentially random and since entropy ALWAYS increases it will carry on this way. The formation of atmospheres does not require a creator, over trillions of planets the possibility of one forming a nitrogen/oxygen based atmosphere like ours purely by gravity and chance, is quite high.

Quite. Of course, you're commiting two fallacies here -- one regarding religion, the other regarding the universe. The former, because not every religion claims to show how the universe was created, and those which do can be interpreted as being allegorical. The latter, because you assume to know too much about the universe: it being "essentially random" is a matter of perspective, discounting the fact that you know far less about it than you would claim -- Einstein said that "the most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it appears to be comprehensible". Assuming the universe is random just because you cannot discern a meaning or purpose is a leap of faith on your part. There's no reason to "accept" it, as though it were an objective truth.

And essentially the same questions asked of science can be asked of religion: Who made god? If you think about it, science and religion are similar in how they are unable to answer such fundamental questions. The difference is that one is based in logic and reason, the other in faith and also fear of the unknown.

It doesn't work that way though, does it? A religious person will say that no one created God, just like you claim that no one created the Universe. Why would God require a creator, while the universe requires none? As for "fear of the unknown" -- that's a gross assumption on your part. You claim to know why believers believe what they believe, when you do not believe yourself? Silly, silly man.

[Futile Rhetoric]

Originally posted by FatM4n+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FatM4n)</div>

Originally posted by Futile Rhetoric@
<!--QuoteBegin-FatM4n

Futile, can you prove that your religion does excist?

If so hit me with hit :wub:

A lot of religions exist. It's quite easy to prove that, I'm sure you're more than capable.

Funny part is that you dont give me soome proof, so i guess you cant give me proof
You alwasy tend to change the subject[/b]

Proof of what? That religions exist? Go find yourself some scripture or a church, or learn to word your questions more carefully.

[Futile Rhetoric]

Originally posted by 0000000
I cant believe i am reading this. You know something could not possibly happen yet it is true? This is completely irrational. Religious truth differs from scientific truth yes, because religious truth is not truth it is BELIEF. You have a warped perception of truth, its scary to think that you do not question what you are told, and you accept it as truth even if it is completely irrational.

All of your knowledge is belief, no matter how badly you want it to be "truth".

[Raine]

Originally posted by Jediay
Seems to me , *this isn't on topic

+1

[Futile Rhetoric]

Originally posted by Raine+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Raine)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Jediay

Seems to me , *this isn't on topic

+1 [/b]

Topic nazi!

[Eric]

here's the main point of this entire argument :
Can you provide undeniable evidence to prove that your religion beliefs are true?

The answer of course is no.

Then why do you believe it? Because you were brought up being taught it by school and your parents? If that suits you then to each their own, however when your beliefs are taken to an extreme and are infringing on the rights of other human beings we have a problem. When the believers in [insert religion] begin to try to pass belief off as scientific fact while providing no evidence to support the claim, well then we have a problem.

The nature of religion is to believe utterly unquestionably thus it can not be taught in conjunction with evolution because the two theories contradict each other, one stating the world has lasted for only a couple millenia as apposed to one stating that the world is billions of years old.

And to those who believe because of how you were brought up and what you were taught, why don't you question it? Why do you fear the unknown? Why do allow yourselves to become drones being told what to believe and what not to? Do you even care about the world edging towards a lack of doubt, where people believe what they are told unquestionably and those who try to think for themselves end up in the Ministry of Love? (1984)

[Mrjcolley]

Originally posted by Eric
here's the main point of this entire argument :
Can you provide undeniable evidence to prove that your religion beliefs are true?

The answer of course is no. *

Then why do you believe it? *Because you were brought up being taught it by school and your parents? *If that suits you then to each their own, however when your beliefs are taken to an extreme and are infringing on the rights of other human beings we have a problem. *When the believers in [insert religion] begin to try to pass belief off as scientific fact while providing no evidence to support the claim, well then we have a problem. *

The nature of religion is to believe utterly unquestionably thus it can not be taught in conjunction with evolution because the two theories contradict each other, one stating the world has lasted for only a couple millenia as apposed to one stating that the world is billions of years old.

Amen to that, eric for god! <_<

[mason_cro]

So, Zero playing the heretic on these forums again Just kidding, I'll take a few minutes out of my studying just to get involved in this topic, it's interesting.
Futile didn't leave much space for arguments PRO religion, but I'll try to add something of my own.

Religion is irrational, thanks for admitting that.

Of course religion is irrational, it's not meant to be rational, since everything based on human feelings IS and will be irrational. Hell, science can be irrational too. If I remember correctly, Linus Pauling made a stupid mistake while trying to prove some molecular structure, and I believe it was DNA ( afterwards Watson and Crick did it correctly ), and he's probably the most important chemist in the history of mankind. So even the best science can be irrational.

However, is something so "irrational" unnecessary or "wrong" ? I think not. People always had something irrational in their lives, and we still do - take love for example. Rational? I think not.
I respect everyone's opinions, and I've had this discussion with some friends numerous times, and the thing that bothers me the most is that people tend to think that THEIR way is right, and "our" / my way is wrong.
Example :

Its good to know that i am one of a small minority of enlightened and sane people.

A teacher of mine once said - the only thing I don't believe in are atheists, and I'd agree on that, because you can rationalize all you want, but at one point in your life you will see that there ARE things beyond rational explanation.
I'd also just like to add - I'm not particularly religious, but I am a believer. I like to think I have my own personal relationship with "Him", and I don't need no corrupt clergy to "negotiate" with Him. Religion has had it's ups and downs, but I'm trying to explain and justify the better part of it - the spiritual one.
Something was said about why the sky is blue,blahblah...Let me ask you Zero, do you believe in Nature? Or did water decide on it's own that it will be the most dense at 4 degrees Celsius? Is everything an accident? I tend to believe that there is a higher force, whether u name it / him / her Allah, Buddah, Jahve, Mother Nature or whatever.
Back to studying

[mason_cro]

Eric, and how can you describe how "believers" feel, if you are not one of them? It's a bit absurd, kinda like priests talking about coitus

The nature of religion is to believe utterly unquestionably

See,this is wrong. If you take everything as it's written or said, you'll just get brainwashed. If you have atleast a bit of grey matter and a few neurons working u won't allow to become a drone.