Starcraft 2 gameplay

[CurLy]

I know some of you have betas and have been playing as well.

Whats everyone's favorite race/unit/ability etc...

Right now I'm loving toss, so thats what I'll talk about.

-Kinda dissapointed in zealots, charge is kinda weak I'd much rather just have speedlots like SC1. DT's and templars seem kinda trivial with the new units added, they might need change to be effective.
-Stalkers and blink are obviously freakin awesome. Versus melee units using ledges and blink is legit. Also warp prisms//warp gate from gateways are kinda aweseome for base drops with stalkers.
-Immortals are freakin tanks, I'm not too fond of collosus but they can be strong with stalker combo to climb up the side of base for a sneak attack.
-Void rays are really strong, total expansion destruction. Any game vs zerg I feel air is really strong, especially if you go unnoticed and they go roaches. Roaches are really strong but can't attack air obviously. It seems like hydras aren't as good of an option anymore so going air versus zerg is pretty good if you don't get rushed early.
-Mothership is slow as fuck, but strong and vortex is so fun.
-Also gotta love sentries, guardian shield is watsup. Force field is good if your pro and use it right but its kinda hard to me at least...

Others notes: Fuck reaper rushes that shit is so lame.

[camaz0tz]

I know some of you have betas and have been playing as well.

Whats everyone's favorite race/unit/ability etc...

Right now I'm loving toss, so thats what I'll talk about.

-Kinda dissapointed in zealots, charge is kinda weak I'd much rather just have speedlots like SC1. DT's and templars seem kinda trivial with the new units added, they might need change to be effective.
-Stalkers and blink are obviously freakin awesome. Versus melee units using ledges and blink is legit. Also warp prisms//warp gate from gateways are kinda aweseome for base drops with stalkers.
-Immortals are freakin tanks, I'm not too fond of collosus but they can be strong with stalker combo to climb up the side of base for a sneak attack.
-Void rays are really strong, total expansion destruction. Any game vs zerg I feel air is really strong, especially if you go unnoticed and they go roaches. Roaches are really strong but can't attack air obviously. It seems like hydras aren't as good of an option anymore so going air versus zerg is pretty good if you don't get rushed early.
-Mothership is slow as fuck, but strong and vortex is so fun.
-Also gotta love sentries, guardian shield is watsup. Force field is good if your pro and use it right but its kinda hard to me at least...

Others notes: Fuck reaper rushes that shit is so lame.

I play random, and my favorite race is prolly overall z, but it depends on the match up. some match ups i love t, some i love z, some i love p.

Reaper rushes? Yawn, if you can scout it it's amazingly easy to counter. If you can't scout it(have no clue why you wouldn't be able to) then it's always safe to go fast tech to ANY ranged unit. Or if you're zerg and going for a baneling bust, just make a 2nd queen or 2 spines? Unless they tech reaper speed(they never do) you'll be fine with 2 queens/spines(most of the time 1 queen would be sufficient, but 2 to be safe in case they mass reapers to try to get ur minerals from both sides). As toss you should always go for fast stalker anyway, no reason not to.

Zlot charge is infinitely better than sc1 speed for different reasons. Zlot charge works out better in late game. You can close in on units faster than sc1 speed, but harder time keeping up with them. Since zlots should really only be meat shields for the rest of ur army u can always rush in with charge do a hit or two then run out while they run away, rinse and repeat. Why do i love charge over speed so much? ur zlots will stay with ur army instead of insanely outrunning them while running across the map.

void rays ARE op, they just do way too much damage when they get to stage 3 attack.

double zergling rush in 2v2 is also WAY too op...it's VERY hard to defend against even if u know its coming.

99% kill on protoss with 12 lings in ur base before the first zlot is out(unless u chronod it, then theyll get there the same tie it finishes), plus at least 6 more already half way on the way to reinforce the 12. even with good micro and using ALL ur probes+the zlot and chrono boosting a 2nd zlot u cant defend against it before it cripples ur entire eco and/or finishes u off.

about 80% chance to kill zerg, it depends how early they see it and if they went rush build too so they can get a spine crawler super early. if they didnt go rush build too theyre dead. u need like perfect timing to counter it, but it is counterable.

50% chance for it to kill terran, depends on their build order. some t go depot, barracks, then wait for the 3rd depot to block their entrance...if its one of these t theyre fucked. if they instantly seal their entrance with their first 350 minerals then theyll be fine.

early banshee harass with stealth as soon as u can get it(around the time the 2nd banshee is done being built) is extremely strong...especially if u dont have a t on ur team to scan. u can usually get at LEAST half their mineral line before some kind of detection comes.

nydus is amazing, yet so rarely used. schrotti swears hes started a trend in 2v2 gold league by his usage of nydus.

[orko]

Zlot charge is infinitely better than sc1 speed for different reasons. Zlot charge works out better in late game. You can close in on units faster than sc1 speed, but harder time keeping up with them. Since zlots should really only be meat shields for the rest of ur army u can always rush in with charge do a hit or two then run out while they run away, rinse and repeat. Why do i love charge over speed so much? ur zlots will stay with ur army instead of insanely outrunning them while running across the map.

How do you measure the zealot speed in sc1 and sc2 lol ?
Zealots are more than meat shields as they have a good dmg. they are really dangerous when they have leg upgrade.
What did you do in SC1? Did you just move your control group from 1 corner to another corner of the map? lol thats the only way I can think of zealots getting ridiculously far away from the rest of your troops.

void rays ARE op, they just do way too much damage when they get to stage 3 attack..

As you say, any strat that is scouted, loses strenght, so you probably lose to void rays because 1)You actually let them charge up 2)You have 0-2 hydras when there is 2 void rays on your base.

double zergling rush in 2v2 is also WAY too op...it's VERY hard to defend against even if u know its coming.

Ohhh 2v2, wont even bother...

[camaz0tz]

My point is sc1 u had to be a lot more mindful of zlot position, u couldnt let them get too far ahead of ur army but u NEEDED them ahead of ur army to be effective. sc2 the zlots stay with ur army AND they engage a fight FASTER than sc1 speed lots did.

and no, void rays are still OP...people DO proxy stargate so u cant scout it...like theyll send a scout to the far corner of the map to build a pylon to start building void rays there. saying "omg just scout it" really isnt viable. reaper is completely different because if their early rax is missing, u know its coming. fast tech lab on rax? most likely reaper rush. gas before rax is finished? most likely reapers. How do u tell void rays? u have to SEE them being built, which u cant when people can proxy make them.

ALSO smart players build a pylon or two outside of ur base to get 3 charges BEFORE they harass u with them, so the whole "omg u let them get 3 charges" doesnt fly either. though thats not even really needed, they can pretty much hit ur gas from outside ur base and get 3 charges before u even notice them.

[TunaFishyMe]

Vr is so fucking OP its ridiculous. T cant do jack shit about it. Once they a bunch, they fuckign rape the crap out of everything!!! Chargign time isnt even a big deal. They can kill their own pylon to charge and then fuck up everything!! EVERYTHINGGG!!!

i play T. I'm only like 1300 plat but I get bored after a few games and stop playing so i cant mass game and get pro.

[camaz0tz]

Vr is so fucking OP its ridiculous. T cant do jack shit about it. Once they a bunch, they fuckign rape the crap out of everything!!! Chargign time isnt even a big deal. They can kill their own pylon to charge and then fuck up everything!! EVERYTHINGGG!!!

i play T. I'm only like 1300 plat but I get bored after a few games and stop playing so i cant mass game and get pro.

1v1 is just plain boring. 2v2 is a lot more fun though! mainly cuz u can joke around about the matches with eachother. xD

[TunaFishyMe]

2v2 is fun but i like 1v1. its more serious intense shit. I think charge is really really good. Annoying for me cuz i play T. They get to your army so fast and then your tanks are splashing your own army. Pretty annoying. And I believe they can chase you down if you try to retreat.

if you try to retreat against VR and they have speed you just get raped up the ass. and 3-3 VR just rape everyything T can throw at it. Ther eis nothing you can do. vikings? nope. marines? only good if you have a lot and they have a few. When VR # +++, marines = useless. Maybe HSM but they can retreat cuz its slow as hell. Maybe flank HSM?!!! yea good luck pulling that shit off yoooZzzzzZZzZZZZ

VR = OP and fucking banelings land mines.!!!!

[stevenFTW]

game is fine, there is no super cheese builds.. everything is countered pretty easily. Only change there needs to be is spine crawlers should only be able to placed on your own/ally creep not your enemy's.. on a map like steppes of war ZvZ, if you go 6pool with double spine crawler rush backed with zerglings its pretty OP... having 2 spine crawlers outside your hatch with zergling harass = gg.. it can be countered but you must have good micro with drones.

Something needs to be changed in the game dynamics, people are playing to safe and avoiding fast expansions.. scouting your enemy and not seeing a stargate in PvP turns out into an immortal spam+stalkers

As for ppl saying voidrays are OP.. lol don't let them come to you.. make sure you go to them, because if you sit around they will attack your base by the time you move your units and start hitting them they will be on x3 beam.. micro your units so you can fight the voidrays on 1x beam, also a well micro'd queen can kill a early void ray..

I also noticed alot of Mid Terran players, who try maurader+marine spam+medivac+stimpack build over and over, once you get to top play its no longer very effective..

sc2 is all about scouting, if you know what your opponent is doing and building.. then you will beat him.

[CurLy]

Okay so a few days later into my beta playing and I agree with most of u. Charge is definitely nice vs T in that sense, but stalkers are actually way faster than zealots so on early rushes you usually only have blink or charge and i always go with blink.
also I didn't initially know that collosus damage was splash. Its pretty fuckin sexy vs mass marines or zerg

So what do you think about the Roach change from 1 supply to 2, kinda big. Zerg is definitely not as strong cuz of it

i play 2v2 mostly and been playing with my roomate so its kinda fun to play in the same room and shit and just yell at eachother idk
im stuck in silver/gold and shit but i fuck around a lot still and sc is hard to play drunk lol.. I never really played SC1 much so im happy, try to get good before the beta lol :<

[camaz0tz]

the only thing roach nerf did was lower the size of zerg armies(at least zerg armies that focused on roaches), which honestly I think is BETTER. With roach/hydra what would often happen pre-nerf is that the roaches would make a big crescent around whatever it is you're attacking and if its another ranged force you're hydras would just run around behind the roaches unable to ever attack. with this nerf there are less roaches=more room for hydras to attack=more effective use of minerals, since roach damage blows compared to hydras(highest dps unit in the game IIRC).

the nerf is also forcing a lot of zerg players to remember just how awesome lings are.

[stevenFTW]

zergling rush can be stopped by protoss by walling up with pylon/gateway/cybernotics etc.. don't fully wall up instead leave a very small gap, make a zealot (or even more depending on the amount of zerglings ur opponent is creating) and put him on holdstance in the small gap.. he won't move from the gap thus creating the full wall off and not allowing zerglings in.. at the same time since he is in a small area and not an open area, only 1-2 zerglings will be able to hit him at one time instead of getting a surround on him.
Sentry forcefield can be used to block off ramp, but not very ideal against zerg.. does much better early marauder+marines..

As for Terran they should block their ramp with a barracks and 2 supply depots (maybe 3 depending map).. the supply depot has a ability to allow units walk over or not.. so ur not trapping urself in, only keeping ur enemy out.. and marines/marauders can shoot from behind. Also terran players can switch their lab from their barracks to their factory and saves time, which is a really nice trick.

[camaz0tz]

As for Terran they should block their ramp with a barracks and 2 supply depots (maybe 3 depending map).. the supply depot has a ability to allow units walk over or not.. so ur not trapping urself in, only keeping ur enemy out.. and marines/marauders can shoot from behind. Also terran players can switch their lab from their barracks to their factory and saves time, which is a really nice trick.

Supply depot's is begging for banelings!

[giga]

it seems 99/100 times when you play against a terrn, you get reaper rushed, and when you play against zerg, you get zerglings in your base 30 seconds after the match starts

[camaz0tz]

it seems 99/100 times when you play against a terrn, you get reaper rushed, and when you play against zerg, you get zerglings in your base 30 seconds after the match starts

of course? part of the game is trying to cripple ur oponents economy. any damage u can do early game will help u later on if u can keep the pressure on. slowing them down keeps their army size down or u force them into making units to defend while u tech another type of unit that counters that unit. then push and win.

not to mention it keeps people defensive, rather than allowing them to macro freely

[TunaFishyMe]

VRs are overpowered period. In the beginning, you can go reactor core and pump out marines to fend it off. But if they can micro well, once they get like 7-8, you cant do shit. Fully charged VRs rape the crap out of vikings. and then by that time, marines and just pew pew pew. There is no other anti air worth mentioning. Thor? Maybe with the splash damage? But VR's dps is too high and will kill it. I think Thor does 8 + 8(light). I dont think VR is light but correct me if i'm wrong.

Reaper rush is good but it loses its effectiveness really quickly. Once a stalker is out, no more reaper. And 2-3 marines can fend it off easy. I don't like it because its so gas intensive. 50 gas so early on is a lot yo.

Even in high level play MMM is a strong build. Of course it depends what race you play with. I see a lot of ppl experimenting with Viking, Tank and Marines build which i find pretty cool. I think hellions and rauds are pretty effective against Z. But I'm bored of the game. Too much effort to get good lol.