Apex Forever | LIGHT-FARM | UNIQUE CONCEPT

[twostars]

if it just made the walls low poly i would get it but being able to see people on the castle walls and in the crystal room and just drop novas when we cant see shit. fucking pathetic that twostars believed that for a second.

I think there's a communication error here.

Let me try and explain, once again, so you can understand where I'm coming from:

This isn't something new.
This is something that's existed for a long time and is allowed on every other private server (i.e. expected/standard).
It's mostly geared towards removing higher poly meshes/objects (not just the textures as they like to claim - but they say that because they leave a lot of the framework meshes in place, so collision does still work) which cause FPS issues which makes life more difficult with a very populated instance (and hence a huge frame drop to begin with).
This pack also deals with effects (since particle effects in particular are pretty intensive). I don't really care about effects.
This isn't even "wall hacking" as it's understood in the context of Knight Online, ever. If we're talking about CS or something, sure, I get it -- but never in the history of KO has seeing through walls been considered wall hacking, so it's pointless to try and say that we're "not enforcing rules" here. It's not considered bannable.

HAVING SAID THAT. I also told you, and everyone else, several times, that I'd be looking into preventing the egregious/more pointless cases like this while selectively allowing lesser concerns (or preferably giving better graphical options for, so they don't need to resort to this -- but of course, time is a constraint).
As such, there's really no reason to punish them here. By the rules as provided (and we were aware of this pack -- not of the wall thing, but we were aware of it nonetheless), they did nothing wrong.

But I WILL be preventing this stuff (the most egregious instances, anyway), and THEN when we have something in place to fall back on, THEN we can make a rule about it for FUTURE occasions.

If people can calm down a bit so I can stop having to try and explain this to you guys, maybe I can get started on it. But this is just wasting time.

[Josh]

I think there's a communication error here.

Let me try and explain, once again, so you can understand where I'm coming from:

This isn't something new.

Neither are most bugs that are bannable in KO? Just because it isn't new doesn't mean it should be allowed.

This is something that's existed for a long time and is allowed on every other private server (i.e. expected/standard).

So is KSing and Luring. Both allowed on official and every single PS I've played, yet they're not allowed here and offenders are punished. You can't use this excuse if you're going to be selective about what you use it on.

It's mostly geared towards removing higher poly meshes/objects (not just the textures as they like to claim - but they say that because they leave a lot of the framework meshes in place, so collision does still work) which cause FPS issues which makes life more difficult with a very populated instance (and hence a huge frame drop to begin with).
This pack also deals with effects (since particle effects in particular are pretty intensive). I don't really care about effects.

That shouldn't matter. It may have originally been done to help with FPS issues years ago, but that is not why it's being used now. Case in point that video, where the user is recording his gameplay and it's extremely smooth, something he wouldn't be able to do if he was having such fps issues that he had to remove textures.

This isn't even "wall hacking" as it's understood in the context of Knight Online, ever. If we're talking about CS or something, sure, I get it -- but never in the history of KO has seeing through walls been considered wall hacking, so it's pointless to try and say that we're "not enforcing rules" here. It's not considered bannable.

Semantics. Whether they're using the right terminology or not the point is still valid. People are gaining a massive advantage over others by using edited files. Is TBL editing legal now?

HAVING SAID THAT. I also told you, and everyone else, several times, that I'd be looking into preventing the egregious/more pointless cases like this while selectively allowing lesser concerns (or preferably giving better graphical options for, so they don't need to resort to this -- but of course, time is a constraint).
As such, there's really no reason to punish them here. By the rules as provided (and we were aware of this pack -- not of the wall thing, but we were aware of it nonetheless), they did nothing wrong.

May I ask why you changed your mind about editing files so dramatically? This was you (Twostars was Sinuta on discord) a few days before the server opened when someone asked you if editing their visual files was abuse.

[twostars]

I'm struggling to see what it is you're trying to call me out on. In both instances I say I don't agree with it and I'll do something about it, just in the latter I point out that there ARE PEOPLE who use it for FPS reasons. Not the guy recording, yes, fine, whatever, but in general. Since I've had a good opportunity to look at the mage packs and confirm for sure just what they do and do not modify, and my statement there is only true for trees/bushes etc. Not walls. Walls are a different story entirely -- I didn't know about walls then.

I just haven't had a chance to deal with it previously, and as it's *standard behaviour* it needs dealing with a little more finesse than "ban them all".
You can try to twist words all you want, but at the end of the day it was never bannable, and wall hacking has never once meant seeing through walls in KO. Ever.
And even if it did, it has never meant that here so your point there is invalid. Wall hacking = moving through walls here. That's it. You don't need to keep trying to argue semantics here, it changes nothing.
They're not going to be banned for wall hacking, end of story.

I've told you what the problem is. I've told that I'm doing something about it.

I really don't understand you trying to call me out for me saying basically the same thing I've been saying already...

[Josh]

I don't see many wanting them banned. I for sure don't, it wouldn't be fair to ban someone about something that is allowed on many servers.

But it's absurd you allow them to keep the castle, that's what people aren't happy about.

Edit: I'm also not trying to call you out, just discuss some of your points.

[twostars]

I don't see many wanting them banned. I for sure don't, it wouldn't be fair to ban someone about something that is allowed on many servers.

But it's absurd you allow them to keep the castle, that's what people aren't happy about.

Edit: I'm also not trying to call you out, just discuss some of your points.

You can't say it doesn't make sense to punish them while also saying it makes sense to punish them though. Either they did something wrong, or they didn't.
It's not against rules, allowed everywhere else, you agree with this - so then punishing them for it doesn't make sense, regardless of whether it's a ban or removal of the castle.

[ilterates]

You can't say it doesn't make sense to punish them while also saying it makes sense to punish them though. Either they did something wrong, or they didn't.
It's not against rules, allowed everywhere else, you agree with this - so then punishing them for it doesn't make sense, regardless of whether it's a ban or removal of the castle.

It doesn't matter what he says or means. What matters is what you will or not do. Will you really allow this to continue to happen in your server?



If your answer is yes, stop hitting around the bush and let us know, so we can move on with our lives.

[twostars]

It doesn't matter what he says or means. What matters is what you will or not do. Will you really allow this to continue to happen in your server?



If your answer is yes, stop hitting around the bush and let us know, so we can move on with our lives.

If you're looking for an answer, you should try to read one of my responses, because I've answered this numerous times already:

I think there's a communication error here.

Let me try and explain, once again, so you can understand where I'm coming from:

This isn't something new.
This is something that's existed for a long time and is allowed on every other private server (i.e. expected/standard).
It's mostly geared towards removing higher poly meshes/objects (not just the textures as they like to claim - but they say that because they leave a lot of the framework meshes in place, so collision does still work) which cause FPS issues which makes life more difficult with a very populated instance (and hence a huge frame drop to begin with).
This pack also deals with effects (since particle effects in particular are pretty intensive). I don't really care about effects.
This isn't even "wall hacking" as it's understood in the context of Knight Online, ever. If we're talking about CS or something, sure, I get it -- but never in the history of KO has seeing through walls been considered wall hacking, so it's pointless to try and say that we're "not enforcing rules" here. It's not considered bannable.

HAVING SAID THAT. I also told you, and everyone else, several times, that I'd be looking into preventing the egregious/more pointless cases like this while selectively allowing lesser concerns (or preferably giving better graphical options for, so they don't need to resort to this -- but of course, time is a constraint).
As such, there's really no reason to punish them here. By the rules as provided (and we were aware of this pack -- not of the wall thing, but we were aware of it nonetheless), they did nothing wrong.

But I WILL be preventing this stuff (the most egregious instances, anyway), and THEN when we have something in place to fall back on, THEN we can make a rule about it for FUTURE occasions.

If people can calm down a bit so I can stop having to try and explain this to you guys, maybe I can get started on it. But this is just wasting time.

[Decerto]

I'm not even playing KO but this is ridiculous. They literally REMOVED the walls. Doesnt matter if they still cant pass tru them, they gain huge advantage knowing where everyone is (priests).

PS:

[Josh]

You can't say it doesn't make sense to punish them while also saying it makes sense to punish them though. Either they did something wrong, or they didn't.
It's not against rules, allowed everywhere else, you agree with this - so then punishing them for it doesn't make sense, regardless of whether it's a ban or removal of the castle.

You've said you're going to make attempts to block it happening, as well as previously saying editing files is abuse (as per the screenshot) so it's obviously not 100% allowed in your server.

There are degrees to punishment. Banning them would be unfair, but removing the castle is just restoring neutrality. If going ahead you're not going to allow this level of editing of files, then it's fair to retroactively remove the castle from them, as I can say for sure that it was pivotal in their win.

Why should they be rewarded for editing files and having an advantage over people who don't? Not banning them is perfectly justified, but actively rewarding them (Choosing their PK video as a competition winner AND letting them keep castle) for it? When you're planning to block it in the coming days? That's just absurd.

[twostars]

You've said you're going to make attempts to block it happening, as well as previously saying editing files is abuse (as per the screenshot) so it's obviously not 100% allowed in your server.

There are degrees to punishment. Banning them would be unfair, but removing the castle is just restoring neutrality. If going ahead you're not going to allow this level of editing of files, then it's fair to retroactively remove the castle from them, as I can say for sure that it was pivotal in their win.

Why should they be rewarded for editing files and having an advantage over people who don't? Not banning them is perfectly justified, but actively rewarding them (Choosing their PK video as a competition winner AND letting them keep castle) for it? When you're planning to block it in the coming days? That's just absurd.

The only thing that's worth adding to this at this point is their PK video has nothing to do with anything, and in fact they won by default; nobody else followed competition rules.
As we've established, it's not a bannable offense, which means that they did nothing wrong to disqualify them from that competition (from *forever ago*, now).

I won't be responding to this anymore. I've told you guys what I'm doing about the matter, there's nothing more to say here.

If you have any further problems, I suggest you take them up on our forums where we can address such concerns. This is not the place for that.

[FlyingSolo]

Why wouldn't you remove them from the CSW and make it neutral again? No one is asking for anyone to be banned but they had a unfair ADVANTAGE over the full server and that's why they won it in the end. It isn't just undez who are complaining regarding this , actually its the full server now including radhaus and many other english speaking clans yet you guys decide to side with the cheaters?

You guys have been sooo bad with communication on this server from start till now. Infact when this server started it was actually DEAD on day 1 and no one even thought it would last until now. Thanks to some loyalty from certain clans (I wont name which *rollseyes*) more people seen activity and joined. Players like cabalerros who are now bug abusing and getting away with it, I wonder how much money these guys put in your pockets compared to certain clans? Its absolutely disgusting.

Not one gm event neither a boss event. INFACT no event since the server started except a daily scheduled *NP increase after bdw* . You guys are running on very thin lines and peoples patience is going. Im about to call you a fraud twostars claiming you have the best server files with apex ko but yet cant simply fix a few bugs that other servers have completely destroyed a long time ago.

Watch this space if the castle isn't removed from cabalerros by the end of the week because if it isn't you will see ALOT of empty space in your server.

[razor]

You can't say it doesn't make sense to punish them while also saying it makes sense to punish them though. Either they did something wrong, or they didn't.
It's not against rules, allowed everywhere else, you agree with this - so then punishing them for it doesn't make sense, regardless of whether it's a ban or removal of the castle.

Why the fuck does it matter if it's allowed here or everywhere else? Guess what, everywhere else no kingship would have been removed. This is your own server, and I thought that was something that aesteris was making clear when holding a zero tolerance policy for some elementary school level of verbal abuse. Hilariously enough, verbal offenses are more strict than actual file editing. How twisted are your priorities?

I know you never played KO, and this isn't meant to be insulting, but to deny that this is a major unbelievable advantage is to lie to yourself. Have you ever played a first person shooter? Imagine you could see through walls, what does that entail? It means that you will NEVER be ambushed by anyone, and that when camping a spot, you know exactly when people will come, and from what direction. If this is not a major advantage, then I don't know what it is.

You are supporting file editing because "everyone else is doing it" - not only is that false and ignorant to say, but also insulting to those who play legit. How low can you go? At least macro doesn't modify the client.

Unfortunately I never played WoW so I can't put this in terms you would understand. Let's just say that it makes mages immune to ambushes, and inside the crystal room, it gives the biggest of advantages when defending.

-----------------

Edit: Maybe you think only the outer walls of the castle are invisible. Is that what's going on? EVERYTHING, especially in the crystal room, is visible. They know when our mages are coming in, they know when to nova and wipe.

Is this okay to you? Check the video at this timestamp. https://youtu.be/aTOy9trpFII?t=250

[slicethem]

Twostars please Stop responding.
You make urself look like a retard with ur statements.

[Ching]

Like i said before its like pretty much having lupin on everyclass all the time and you can see the rogues coming to get you every single time, same thing here you can see where everyone is, which helps you by telling u when to go in etc. Yes one is tbl and the otherone is just editing, but arent they the same thing? Just diferent labels
Sure you cant detect it but by those guys recording themselfs having it, u should atleast take away theirs csw

[simontjeuh]

How will removing them from CSW solve anything?It's nothing more than a bandaid on a booboo of people who didn't win CSW.

If they didn't make that "PK video", would anyone have known they use those edits?
What if the next castle owner uses those tbl edits aswell, but there's no video proof like in this case?

Removing them from CSW won't solve the underlying problem. Nor prevent someone else from capturing CSW the same (unfair) way.

As an endnote to my post: KO has become pathetic: macro, tbl edits, all have become widely accepted. Sad Stuff.