Hypocrites

[moemoneyman]

how good are your ethics if your babashopping and breaking a games rules? isnt breaking rules in a game cheating? dont tell people about ethics

that goes for everyone

p.s i have bad ethics [/b]

Dude you are a fucking moron. I swear everytime you quote me with your dull responses, you just add on to your stupidity. Read, comprehend, then re-read that statement. Where did I say I was ethical? I said you have to have some ethics. I didn't say I was ethical. Even drug dealers have some ethics. They sometimes go to church, pray first, and then sell crack. You need to get an education. I suggest a community college first. Don't waste your mom's money on a university just yet, you will just end up failing. This is just sad, I hope you don't live in USA. We have enough problems.

[moemoneyman]

double

[agendas]

Dude you are a fucking moron. I swear everytime you quote me, you just add on to your stupidity. Read, comprehend, then re-read that statement. Where did I say I was ethical? I said you have to have some ethics. I didn't say I was ethical. Even drug dealers have some ethics. They sometimes go to church, pray first, and then sell crack. You need to get an education. I suggest a community college first. Don't waste your mom's money on a university just yet, you will just end up failing. This is just sad, I hope you don't live in USA. We have enough problems.[/b]

ur turn to read where did i say u have bad ethics? i said how good are your ethics? so i dont need u to call me a moron nor tell me how to get my education....... and its assholes like u that make this country have downs....... everyone knows i love this country

now its ur turn b4 u repost go and look where i said u have bad ethics....... i just dont think u need to tell people they "have to have some ethics" when u are complaining about how someone out-cheated u


spam topic just close plz :/

[vandy_vs_gator]

1: http://www.ko4life.com/forums/index.php?ac...p;f=2&id=13
2: when i see someone shouting in morodon i see there prices are actually $2-4+ the normaly price.
3: PM the Market MOD for that section if people are saying stuff about Chinese Gold farmers.
4: whats **666 ?

[Felix]

I actually deleated the "cheapers selling threads" and suspended some of the users that were spamming on your thread you linked me.

If you keep having problems you have to tell me each time or grab me on msn ( pm me for my private one ). I do as much as I can when told but I will not check each market section ( or any ) for this kind of stuff as what time I spend on ko4life get soaked up with other duties.

[MeeP]

1: http://www.ko4life.com/forums/index.php?ac...p;f=2&id=13
2: when i see someone shouting in morodon i see there prices are actually $2-4+ the normaly price.
3: PM the Market MOD for that section if people are saying stuff about Chinese Gold farmers.
4: whats **666 ?[/b]

4. GV666, the largest company supplying GBs, obviously.

[Rad_Archer]

There are some aspects that I completely agree with this post and I think it's a great topic for discussion.

What many people do not understand is that these packs of farmers will eventually kill the value of everyones items in the game. One of the points in basic economics is that of supply and demand. We do have a virtual economy in this game solely based on the fact that people will pay for rare and in game valuable items (the same as ALL the popular MMO's). I love listening to the dumbass scammers say "it's virtual, it's not stealing." That really shows what a seriously low IQ these people actually have, since you're banking is virtual, when you buy MP3's they are virtual (and the law is clear about stealing these), as well as downloading books, programs, etc., it all may be virtual but it doesn't mean it has zero monetary value and because of the "newness" of the internet, real life laws are just starting to be put forth to congress (note the whole deal with Napster etc). Scammers just use this as a point to make it seems like it's no big deal in their heads, but intentionally scamming is no different than any other thieving although it's much more cowardice.

Back to the point, If I spend my time bossing, trading in morodon for hrs, upgrading items, etc. and go to sell my items that I get from this, it's worth something because others need it or desire it. If I do this, but I am competing against 4 teams of 8-30 farmers, the supply of people selling items/GB has just skyrocketed. In the long run, you will see way more items and these dealers will continually lower the prices on each other until when any of us decide to quit, or go to a new server etc and want to sell our items, they may become worthless. That's how it affects 95% of the players out there.

The other point is one that I made a long time ago on these forums. I visited China 2xs and stayed in the country for over a month visiting every main city as well as some of the poorest towns you can ever imagine.

The average person, not living in a city was making around $7 usd A WEEK. Not a day. So when you understand that and how hard life can be, then you can understand why a farmer, busting his ass in a field for nothing, may want to farm gold and make himself a better living while playing a game online. These guys are here to stay. Teams will come from other countries when they understand what can be gained, the solutions to this are not easy and judging by what others have posted as solutions, many feel there are none. But it is a reality and it will effect the game and the way the game is played in the future.

[satanaku]

Your argument is not viable moe, because buyers always gravitate to the cheapest price. If you are charging price X for an item, while someone else is charging X minus Y for that same item, the fact is people will be attracted to the offer that is Y price below your own. Your attempt to use ethics to prevent this from happening in a "hey guys we are one team lets stick together and buy from me because we don't like chinese farmers" is not feasable over the net, where there is little social pressure regarding private actions done beyond notice of the game community. For instance, if I were to purchase with USD gold bars/items from a chinese farming company, it is likely nobody on here would ever know. Therefore you are stretching to think that most people will continue to come to you- or anyone else who uses preferred methods while charging higher prices.

This is similar a person during the massive dupe era saying "don't buy from dupers they are bringing down the prices, come to me and I will give you an Iron Neck I farmed myself for 5 times as much". As much as it may seem unfair to the person putting out the effort, people would not pay an imaginary market value sans duping. In fact the current outbreak of chinese/macro farming contrasts the dupe era in that there at least was a danger to buy a duped item in that it might later be wiped, causing some people to pay a higher cost out of fear- paying a premium to traders of so-called "legit items". There is no fear of that now, as all gold/items being farmed by macroers are un-duped and therefore will not be wiped.

In the same way massive duping caused IGC market prices to skyrocket, chinese/macro farmers selling gold bars/items flooding the market a cheaper USD price will force their price to become the new price whether you may like it or not.

The above jabs regarding your use of ethics, while sloppily pointed out by previous posters actually hold some relevence in this situation. Charging legal tender for the right to receive items in trade from yourself and others (as you have described said transactions) is and has been against KO's TOS for a very long time. Therefore it is unrealistic to expect those already willing to violate the TOS in this manner to suddenly stop at an imaginary line when a greater cost value opportunity arises for those same people- if there are no social repercussions for doing so withing the game (which there isn't being that all gold bars/items look the same in game no matter whom you obtain them from, and who is to know for certain where Average Joe A got his 10 GB or his new shiny skelly belt last night?).

As pointed out earlier, if some people actually did agree to only buy within this forum even at higher prices and to stay away from Chinse/macro gold farmers cheaper prices; how long woud it be before people within the forum itself begin buying from these cheaper Chinese/macro farmer sources, then turning it over for instant profit in the forums at higher prices while claiming to be "GG's"?

Though I understand the reason behind your attempt to appeal to the community (threat of loss of profitablility), you are fighting a losing battle.

[satanaku]

Rad- While I agree that these Chinese/macro farmers go a long way towards ruining the game experience for people who attempt to play this game within the rules of the game, as well as damaging the short and long term game market in a real manner (hence why I quit this game myself when macroing Fal/Ult/Iso started going unpunished), it isn't going to change the fact that more/cheaper goods being offered into the game economy will result in people having to charge similar prices. The consequence for resisting doing so is to be driven out of the USD KO game market accordingly.

[moemoneyman]

I actually deleated the "cheapers selling threads" and suspended some of the users that were spamming on your thread you linked me.

If you keep having problems you have to tell me each time or grab me on msn ( pm me for my private one ). I do as much as I can when told but I will not check each market section ( or any ) for this kind of stuff as what time I spend on ko4life get soaked up with other duties.[/b]

Thanks a lot man. I wasn't sure. I know your busy and I understand that. It was a small matter (my post, not this) but I feel that this thing is getting out of hand.

[moemoneyman]

Your argument is not viable moe, because buyers always gravitate to the cheapest price. If you are charging price X for an item, while someone else is charging X minus Y for that same item, the fact is people will be attracted to the offer that is Y price below your own. Your attempt to use ethics to prevent this from happening in a "hey guys we are one team lets stick together and buy from me because we don't like chinese farmers" is not feasable over the net, where there is little social pressure regarding private actions done beyond notice of the game community. For instance, if I were to purchase with USD gold bars/items from a chinese farming company, it is likely nobody on here would ever know. Therefore you are stretching to think that most people will continue to come to you- or anyone else who uses preferred methods while charging higher prices.

This is similar a person during the massive dupe era saying "don't buy from dupers they are bringing down the prices, come to me and I will give you an Iron Neck I farmed myself for 5 times as much". As much as it may seem unfair to the person putting out the effort, people would not pay an imaginary market value sans duping. In fact the current outbreak of chinese/macro farming contrasts the dupe era in that there at least was a danger to buy a duped item in that it might later be wiped, causing some people to pay a higher cost out of fear- paying a premium to traders of so-called "legit items". There is no fear of that now, as all gold/items being farmed by macroers are un-duped and therefore will not be wiped.

In the same way massive duping caused IGC market prices to skyrocket, chinese/macro farmers selling gold bars/items flooding the market a cheaper USD price will force their price to become the new price whether you may like it or not.

The above jabs regarding your use of ethics, while sloppily pointed out by previous posters actually hold some relevence in this situation. Charging legal tender for the right to receive items in trade from yourself and others (as you have described said transactions) is and has been against KO's TOS for a very long time. Therefore it is unrealistic to expect those already willing to violate the TOS in this manner to suddenly stop at an imaginary line when a greater cost value opportunity arises for those same people- if there are no social repercussions for doing so withing the game (which there isn't being that all gold bars/items look the same in game no matter whom you obtain them from, and who is to know for certain where Average Joe A got his 10 GB or his new shiny skelly belt last night?).

As pointed out earlier, if some people actually did agree to only buy within this forum even at higher prices and to stay away from Chinse/macro gold farmers cheaper prices; how long woud it be before people within the forum itself begin buying from these cheaper Chinese/macro farmer sources, then turning it over for instant profit in the forums at higher prices while claiming to be "GG's"?

Though I understand the reason behind your attempt to appeal to the community (threat of loss of profitablility), you are fighting a losing battle.[/b]

I see that you have not even read anything that I have said, since you are talking about economics which has nothing to do with my topic. I simply said, people here complain about farmers yet are hypocritical enough to support them. By helping these farmers make more money than doctors, do you think their number will increase or decrease?

Since you are so adamant about talking Supply and Demand, lets talk economics. What happens in a perfect competition where there is no barrier to entry and people are making profit? People enter the market in hopes of getting some of that profit. Currently, there are not 1 chinese farming company, but several farming companies. What happens when there are a lot of companies selling the same product? Supply increases. What happens when supply increases? Price decreases. What happens when price decreases? People can afford to buy more. What happens when people can afford to buy more? The value of the item decreases. What happens when the value of the item decreases? Inflation. The ingame prices will rise.

Now, the reason I am asking people not to buy goldbars is not because they are cheap and I wan't people to buy from me, but because I don't want this game to go back to the way when shells +1 were 200 mil coins. As a community, our job is to "stick together" so that this doesn't happen. Even though the chances of that happening is very slim, if this continues there is no telling what will happen.

Next time read the first post.

My argument was probably not viable to you, because we are not even discussing the same thing. And thats not my fault. You don't have to write an encyclopedia, all you have to do is read and maybe you would've made sense. Thanks for participating.

[moemoneyman]

There are some aspects that I completely agree with this post and I think it's a great topic for discussion.

What many people do not understand is that these packs of farmers will eventually kill the value of everyones items in the game. One of the points in basic economics is that of supply and demand. We do have a virtual economy in this game solely based on the fact that people will pay for rare and in game valuable items (the same as ALL the popular MMO's). I love listening to the dumbass scammers say "it's virtual, it's not stealing." That really shows what a seriously low IQ these people actually have, since you're banking is virtual, when you buy MP3's they are virtual (and the law is clear about stealing these), as well as downloading books, programs, etc., it all may be virtual but it doesn't mean it has zero monetary value and because of the "newness" of the internet, real life laws are just starting to be put forth to congress (note the whole deal with Napster etc). Scammers just use this as a point to make it seems like it's no big deal in their heads, but intentionally scamming is no different than any other thieving although it's much more cowardice.

Back to the point, If I spend my time bossing, trading in morodon for hrs, upgrading items, etc. and go to sell my items that I get from this, it's worth something because others need it or desire it. If I do this, but I am competing against 4 teams of 8-30 farmers, the supply of people selling items/GB has just skyrocketed. In the long run, you will see way more items and these dealers will continually lower the prices on each other until when any of us decide to quit, or go to a new server etc and want to sell our items, they may become worthless. That's how it affects 95% of the players out there.

The other point is one that I made a long time ago on these forums. I visited China 2xs and stayed in the country for over a month visiting every main city as well as some of the poorest towns you can ever imagine.

The average person, not living in a city was making around $7 usd A WEEK. Not a day. So when you understand that and how hard life can be, then you can understand why a farmer, busting his ass in a field for nothing, may want to farm gold and make himself a better living while playing a game online. These guys are here to stay. Teams will come from other countries when they understand what can be gained, the solutions to this are not easy and judging by what others have posted as solutions, many feel there are none. But it is a reality and it will effect the game and the way the game is played in the future.[/b]

So when you buy mp3s are you also purchasing the license for the song? No. You are only purchasing the right to listen to the song. Let me educate you to the word "copyright". When you buy a book, you don't really own the actual book (the material). What you own is a shell. You can't re-publish the book. You can't make copies of the book. You can't even quote the book without citation. What you can do is you can resell the shell, but not the book. The book is owned by the company who has copyright to it. Once again, back to my point, what I doing is not selling the item, all I am doing is selling the time spent collecting the item. The item is still "owned" by K2. Actually, its not, they are purchasing the right to use the item from the people who own the copyright, but we will say they own it for simplification. Therefore, you can't really sell something which isn't yours. Unless I hack their server, steal the data of their items, and use it in my own mmorpg game, I have done nothing to violate their copyright. Use a better example, if you want to "bash" my IQ. I award you with no points.

If K2 can actually do something about people "selling items" then they could've shut this forum down a long time ago. They know we exist. They also know we "sell items" for real currency. The forum is hosted on invision; they are the worst people to deal with when it comes to copyright infrigement. They will shut your down faster than you can say "its the popos slow down".

[MeeP]

I see that you have not even read anything that I have said, since you are talking about economics which has nothing to do with my topic.[/b]

What ever happens, the most important part in this discussion should be put on finding solutions for preventing the market from "crashing", majority of the so called "pro" players would quit in a momentum if all of their hard spent time would have no real value aka USD. There will be no hypocrites on ko4life left when K2 closes its doors. Not a good solution or what? Else your post seems more like a /rant rather than a /discussion.

[moemoneyman]

What ever happens, the most important part in this discussion should be put on finding solutions for preventing the market from "crashing", majority of the so called "pro" players would quit in a momentum if all of their hard spent time would have no real value aka USD. There will be no hypocrites on ko4life left when K2 closes its doors. Not a good solution or what? Else your post seems more like a /rant rather than a /discussion.[/b]

It is a /rant open for /discussion.

Solution: Don't buy their gold bars?

[Private]

Now u understand how legit turkish people feel [/b]

didn't u jus get off a 30 day ban

only action i can really think ko4life can take is to make sure the farmers aren't selling through here and players aren't reselling through here because the gbs are being farmed with koxp so from ko4life angle it makes the gbs illegal similar to a duper trying to sell there items here and is no reason to let someone go and buy a +10 raptor from the duper and sell here same if they take that raptor and trade for other items dont think they should be allowed to sell here either

reminds me of that fag that was selling duped gb through here on diez forever then came clean bout it or watever and was banned like x1000 times