Apex Forever | LIGHT-FARM | UNIQUE CONCEPT

[MenInBlack]

I assume we're going to have to open 70/72/76/78/80 skills by doing the quests. Or are they open automatically?

it's like the farm beta, you had to open em with quests. new style tho, not MYKO style.

[Kallop]

it's like the farm beta, you had to open em with quests. new style tho, not MYKO style.

Can I get a confirmation on this?

[Aesteris]

Can I get a confirmation on this?

Confirmed.

[CYB3R1NS4N3]

So can we know last decision about Archers?

[Kallop]

So can we know last decision about Archers?

He said that nothing will be changed for the beginning of official. Light feet will work as normal.

None of this seems ideal to us, and thus we're choosing to leave them as-is (without light feet change enabled) during launch, but if they prove to be a problem the first go-to measure will be the light feet removal upon firing an arrow.
Any other changes (range in particular, as that did seem to be favored by archers), would require a client patch and we'll be doing them as needed.

[Johnny]

Will events Juraid and Bifrost be on since 1st day or its gonna come like expansion of 70 cap ?

[razor]

Thank you for these suggestions, we're reviewing them at the moment.
Just to clarify, ONLY light feet is removed upon casting an arrow - if you use swift or swift scroll, it will not be removed.
This seems to have been left out by everyone complaining.
The logic behind this is that archers don't need to both be running extremely fast and only have a cast time of 0.25s.
While damage of a fully geared archer party (or 2, or 3) is high, the biggest problem (from what I could observe anyway) is the inability of anyone to get close to them to begin with.
Mages at the very least have 1s+ cast times so that keeps them in place and allows people to catch up.

The ice/light rate nerfs are here to stay, and are roughly inline with what you outlined.
The light feet removal is currently a setting we can change while the server is live, and we're planning to see how things turn out during official.
In any case, we will be doing something about archer parties one way or the other if they prove problematic during official.

Slightly more insight into what made us do the light feet change rather than tweak damages;
We know that during official damage is going to be extremely dependent on itemization of both attacker and target; tweaking something like this generally tends to lead to frustration because of what you guys already pointed out before, people have come to expect certain things. We looked at re-adding the 1.5s cast time on arrows as this would effectively solve the issue of archers being both the fastest in the game while enjoying an extremely low cast time, but this would be a global change and would thus remove AS/MS combo. We've also looked at range reductions as was suggested on our Discord - while do-able, this feels as if it's just as invasive and would be a global thing too.

None of this seems ideal to us, and thus we're choosing to leave them as-is (without light feet change enabled) during launch, but if they prove to be a problem the first go-to measure will be the light feet removal upon firing an arrow.
Any other changes (range in particular, as that did seem to be favored by archers), would require a client patch and we'll be doing them as needed.

I would increase the styx cooldown as well. Funnily enough the "target has been recently styxed" would actually make sense as a fix here.

Rogue without light feet (or no swift pot) no matter if they're sins archers or troll explorer build, is as clunky as having mage with no teleports. It's even more core to the rogue class than drains are to sins.

[Decerto]

I would increase the styx cooldown as well. Funnily enough the "target has been recently styxed" would actually make sense as a fix here.

Rogue without light feet (or no swift pot) no matter if they're sins archers or troll explorer build, is as clunky as having mage with no teleports. It's even more core to the rogue class than drains are to sins.

yeah but youre talking about original rogues,archers,that couldnt combo. Remember how you had to sit throughout the entire animation to fire an arrow ? Check the video below,at 0:48 seconds,you think that warrior would ever stand a chance vs todays archer ? Not backpedalling ? Even backpedalling he would die lol. So yeah,removing light feet makes sense to me.

[stimpy]

Cant even fucking donate :
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[Johnny]

Cant even fucking donate :
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Ye i allready Noticed that to Aesteris

[razor]

yeah but youre talking about original rogues,archers,that couldnt combo. Remember how you had to sit throughout the entire animation to fire an arrow ? Check the video below,at 0:48 seconds,you think that warrior would ever stand a chance vs todays archer ? Not backpedalling ? Even backpedalling he would die lol. So yeah,removing light feet makes sense to me.

light feet has literally nothing to do with AS/MS so idk what you mean

if worst comes to worst, something else can be figured out.

i was thinking of the "Swamp" debuff from oreads map, so instead of outright removing light feet, you could add that slowdown debuff for 1 second after an arrow has been cast... that'd be much better.

edit: to check it, be human in oreads lunar war map, then run left from you base to the tower of power. In that corner, there's a debuff that slows everyone down ever so slightly, it doesn't remove your swift or light feet, it just makes you run somewhat slower.

[Josh]

Just make it so you can have swift pot on and still use light feet, where the LF just temporarily overrides the swift pot until LF runs out.

It stops them running away at max speed but doesn't make them useless and slow once they shoot as at least they're swifted until their LF is back.

[Sephiroth]

Thank you for these suggestions, we're reviewing them at the moment.
Just to clarify, ONLY light feet is removed upon casting an arrow - if you use swift or swift scroll, it will not be removed.
This seems to have been left out by everyone complaining.
The logic behind this is that archers don't need to both be running extremely fast and only have a cast time of 0.25s.
While damage of a fully geared archer party (or 2, or 3) is high, the biggest problem (from what I could observe anyway) is the inability of anyone to get close to them to begin with.
Mages at the very least have 1s+ cast times so that keeps them in place and allows people to catch up.

The ice/light rate nerfs are here to stay, and are roughly inline with what you outlined.
The light feet removal is currently a setting we can change while the server is live, and we're planning to see how things turn out during official.
In any case, we will be doing something about archer parties one way or the other if they prove problematic during official.

Slightly more insight into what made us do the light feet change rather than tweak damages;
We know that during official damage is going to be extremely dependent on itemization of both attacker and target; tweaking something like this generally tends to lead to frustration because of what you guys already pointed out before, people have come to expect certain things. We looked at re-adding the 1.5s cast time on arrows as this would effectively solve the issue of archers being both the fastest in the game while enjoying an extremely low cast time, but this would be a global change and would thus remove AS/MS combo. We've also looked at range reductions as was suggested on our Discord - while do-able, this feels as if it's just as invasive and would be a global thing too.

None of this seems ideal to us, and thus we're choosing to leave them as-is (without light feet change enabled) during launch, but if they prove to be a problem the first go-to measure will be the light feet removal upon firing an arrow.
Any other changes (range in particular, as that did seem to be favored by archers), would require a client patch and we'll be doing them as needed.

Honest i'm slightly worried, if your making so many different change's to class's can you at least list them? i was going to play an archer because i found them fun, but literally changing the way the game's alway's worked concern's me, these change's all need to be listed way before launch, because these are game breaking change's. I also get that people are uncomfortable playing vs archer, but find a different way to change them other then by changing how the game work's. What else has changed similar to the light feed and rogue's not being able to use drain as intended? Just to add this might seem great to fix archer parties but what about solo archer's, who solo pk who have 3 / 4 sin's chasing them and cant escape due to this change, or iceshot / light a rogue, then can't follow up due to the nerf.

[Josh]

^ Then fuck them. You can't please everyone.

They're solo players, archers at that. They're going to account for 0.1% of the population.

[Lavie]

Just tune DP down by 10% and tune AS/MS up by 10% to incentivise melee range combat - DP probably hits a bit too hard at 70 cap to be fair