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Github Repository for KO Development

This is a discussion on Github Repository for KO Development within the Private Servers forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; Originally Posted by Aristona The amount of time and resources used for this emulator is unreal. Your contributions have been ...
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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristona View Post
    The amount of time and resources used for this emulator is unreal.
    Your contributions have been extremely helpful. I'm sure if you continue with all the help you've been providing, it'll be done in no time.

    ... oh wait, you never did. Fuck off.

    Edit:
    So, I should probably post an update as it's been a couple of months(!) since the last one. Development has indeed been slowed down a bit, as I've been busy with other (non-KO) projects, Aesteris has been busy with uni & not entirely sure where Annunaki is (probably family stuff).

    Initially, I was (perhaps a little too) focused on updating the client source (for a bit of a change). Initially it was for testing map stuff, but I decided to keep going & updating to support at least 1.298 functionality.
    Client is still very iffy (a lot of work has been spent updating UI implementations, and item implementations), but it:
    - loads TBLs (was horribly broken, unstable code),
    - loads string data from TBL, as opposed to using embedded string tables,
    - loads updated UI files (should support even ROFD, but haven't implemented the string padding yet [an addition to the ROFD UI files], as I haven't come across a UI that actually uses it),
    - loads in-game (loads *any* official map version natively without any modification to the map; past or present, as a by-product of the map editor work),
    - can see NPCs / mobs / players,
    - can interact with shop/repair/cape (but can't buy a cape, haven't fully implemented the cape UI)/clan symbol/inn/etc NPCs (not quest NPCs though, still haven't gotten to doing the quest menus/messages),
    - loads/renders capes and attempts to mimic the official cape physics (it's not exact, but it's close enough. IMO it looks slightly better than official). Also overrides with the king's cape if player is a king. Note: small capes, not the long ones. (had to implement this mostly from scratch)
    - loads/renders clan symbols (had to implement this from scratch),
    - loads/renders other symbols (chicken, party leader, rank symbols; had to implement this from scratch),
    - renders the clan leader line (had to implement this from scratch),
    - mobs can be attacked,
    - lootbox is rendered and can be clicked on (had to implement this from scratch),
    - mobs can be looted (sort of: this still needs reimplementing, as it's extremely horrible and a bit outdated),
    - networking code was completely replaced with Boost.Asio (because it's an amazing library. Tempted to do the same with the server...), so the client now uses asynchronous (non-blocking, and implemented as such too: it's most noticeable when connecting to the server initially, as previously it'll freeze the client when attempting to make a connection. Now, it'll just sit there saying 'connecting please wait', with the background still rendering and connect very shortly afterwards.), portable network code (trying to get rid a lot of this OS-specific code, as it'd be fun to have a client that actually natively runs on operating systems without needing Wine),
    - obviously implemented things like packet decompression/encryption, etc.
    - also replaced *ALL* of the packet handling code. ALL OF IT. It was even worse than the server was originally, which is saying something. WTF @ typing out CAPISocket::MP_AddSOMETHING(herpaderp, ...); every time you want to add data to a packet or CAPISocket::Parse_SOMETHING() when reading. It's no wonder it takes them forever to get anything done; that's a LOT of needless typing when talking about implementing lots of features.
    - file i/o and such was replaced to use portable, standard code.
    - nation selection / character selection / character creation screens were updated (though character selection is still using the old screen with them sitting down, for now. To update it, need to spend a bit of time reimplementing it as it runs a little differently now, with a proper zone setup rather than just a pre-built "scene"). So character creation uses the TBL for stats, and items to have equipped by default (for show), as it does officially, character selection has all of the player's equipped items loaded/rendering on them, and nation selection's just... updated.
    - fixed things like the sky bug, experimented with anti-aliasing, etc.
    - implemented the various chat types as of 1.298,
    - added PM box functionality (this didn't exist at all, it was just via the main chat window). Aside from PM box placement, that is, but that's not a huge deal.
    - fixed up item tooltips,
    - fixed up tooltips in general because they're extremely buggy,
    - fixed up & implemented the various official hotkeys,
    - fixed up the skilltree UI (ugh) & its interactions with the skillbar,
    - loads all the skill TBLs,
    ... Lots of stuff.

    Not entirely sure what I want to do with the client. It's a fun side-project, but a lot of work.

    The server, on the other hand, hasn't had all that much attention, but, we've:
    - fixed a few bugs we've come across over time,
    - implemented "indun event" system (for the various events that use this system, such as BDW & monster suppression squads), which is painfully awkward (read: retarded).
    - started implementing BDW: scheduling, registration (& sign-up counter/UI), and instance assignation is done, players are teleported into their respective instances, and that's pretty much it for now... I haven't actually run through an official BDW event, so I need to dig up the rest of the logs Aesteris dumped (and sent me), so I can verify if I'm missing anything like notices, or such (again, I don't know). Will also need to find those logs so I can verify the official types used for the monument(s) (and for that matter, see which implementation they *are* using now). Unfortunately, the official code's changed again, so my logger needs updating, which is a pain.
    - implemented premium functionality (to cross it off the 1.298 milestone), including a cut-off for non-premium players, as per official.
    and other miscellaneous small stuff that isn't worth mentioning here.

    Honestly, I haven't been able to afford it the same amount of attention over the last couple of months that I've been giving it for a while (it can be quite exhausting!), and with Aesteris busy with uni, it's been quiet. Will try to set aside more time for it. ;_;
    Last edited by twostars; 11-05-2013 at 06:30 PM.
    ilovemyko1, Kallop, zuka and 2 others like this.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    Your contributions have been extremely helpful. I'm sure if you continue with all the help you've been providing, it'll be done in no time.

    ... oh wait, you never did. Fuck off.

    Edit:
    So, I should probably post an update as it's been a couple of months(!) since the last one. Development has indeed been slowed down a bit, as I've been busy with other (non-KO) projects, Aesteris has been busy with uni & not entirely sure where Annunaki is (probably family stuff).

    Initially, I was (perhaps a little too) focused on updating the client source (for a bit of a change). Initially it was for testing map stuff, but I decided to keep going & updating to support at least 1.298 functionality.
    Client is still very iffy (a lot of work has been spent updating UI implementations, and item implementations), but it:
    - loads TBLs (was horribly broken, unstable code),
    - loads string data from TBL, as opposed to using embedded string tables,
    - loads updated UI files (should support even ROFD, but haven't implemented the string padding yet [an addition to the ROFD UI files], as I haven't come across a UI that actually uses it),
    - loads in-game (loads *any* official map version natively without any modification to the map; past or present, as a by-product of the map editor work),
    - can see NPCs / mobs / players,
    - can interact with shop/repair/cape (but can't buy a cape, haven't fully implemented the cape UI)/clan symbol/inn/etc NPCs (not quest NPCs though, still haven't gotten to doing the quest menus/messages),
    - loads/renders capes and attempts to mimic the official cape physics (it's not exact, but it's close enough. IMO it looks slightly better than official). Also overrides with the king's cape if player is a king. Note: small capes, not the long ones. (had to implement this mostly from scratch)
    - loads/renders clan symbols (had to implement this from scratch),
    - loads/renders other symbols (chicken, party leader, rank symbols; had to implement this from scratch),
    - renders the clan leader line (had to implement this from scratch),
    - mobs can be attacked,
    - lootbox is rendered and can be clicked on (had to implement this from scratch),
    - mobs can be looted (sort of: this still needs reimplementing, as it's extremely horrible and a bit outdated),
    - networking code was completely replaced with Boost.Asio (because it's an amazing library. Tempted to do the same with the server...), so the client now uses asynchronous (non-blocking, and implemented as such too: it's most noticeable when connecting to the server initially, as previously it'll freeze the client when attempting to make a connection. Now, it'll just sit there saying 'connecting please wait', with the background still rendering and connect very shortly afterwards.), portable network code (trying to get rid a lot of this OS-specific code, as it'd be fun to have a client that actually natively runs on operating systems without needing Wine),
    - obviously implemented things like packet decompression/encryption, etc.
    - also replaced *ALL* of the packet handling code. ALL OF IT. It was even worse than the server was originally, which is saying something. WTF @ typing out CAPISocket::MP_AddSOMETHING(herpaderp, ...); every time you want to add data to a packet or CAPISocket::Parse_SOMETHING() when reading. It's no wonder it takes them forever to get anything done; that's a LOT of needless typing when talking about implementing lots of features.
    - file i/o and such was replaced to use portable, standard code.
    - nation selection / character selection / character creation screens were updated (though character selection is still using the old screen with them sitting down, for now. To update it, need to spend a bit of time reimplementing it as it runs a little differently now, with a proper zone setup rather than just a pre-built "scene"). So character creation uses the TBL for stats, and items to have equipped by default (for show), as it does officially, character selection has all of the player's equipped items loaded/rendering on them, and nation selection's just... updated.
    - fixed things like the sky bug, experimented with anti-aliasing, etc.
    - implemented the various chat types as of 1.298,
    - added PM box functionality (this didn't exist at all, it was just via the main chat window). Aside from PM box placement, that is, but that's not a huge deal.
    - fixed up item tooltips,
    - fixed up tooltips in general because they're extremely buggy,
    - fixed up & implemented the various official hotkeys,
    - fixed up the skilltree UI (ugh) & its interactions with the skillbar,
    - loads all the skill TBLs,
    ... Lots of stuff.

    Not entirely sure what I want to do with the client. It's a fun side-project, but a lot of work.

    The server, on the other hand, hasn't had all that much attention, but, we've:
    - fixed a few bugs we've come across over time,
    - implemented "indun event" system (for the various events that use this system, such as BDW & monster suppression squads), which is painfully awkward (read: retarded).
    - started implementing BDW: scheduling, registration (& sign-up counter/UI), and instance assignation is done, players are teleported into their respective instances, and that's pretty much it for now... I haven't actually run through an official BDW event, so I need to dig up the rest of the logs Aesteris dumped (and sent me), so I can verify if I'm missing anything like notices, or such (again, I don't know). Will also need to find those logs so I can verify the official types used for the monument(s) (and for that matter, see which implementation they *are* using now). Unfortunately, the official code's changed again, so my logger needs updating, which is a pain.
    - implemented premium functionality (to cross it off the 1.298 milestone), including a cut-off for non-premium players, as per official.
    and other miscellaneous small stuff that isn't worth mentioning here.

    Honestly, I haven't been able to afford it the same amount of attention over the last couple of months that I've been giving it for a while (it can be quite exhausting!), and with Aesteris busy with uni, it's been quiet. Will try to set aside more time for it. ;_;

    Sigh.. I was trying to quote just the short part of your post but I assume you just edited it before I quoted and now I have this..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallop View Post
    Sigh.. I was trying to quote just the short part of your post but I assume you just edited it before I quoted and now I have this..
    Good (or bad?) timing, as that was quite a lengthy write-up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    So, I should probably post an update as it's been a couple of months(!) since the last one. Development has indeed been slowed down a bit, as I've been busy with other (non-KO) projects, Aesteris has been busy with uni & not entirely sure where Annunaki is (probably family stuff).
    Does that mean that you've only had 2 active contributers for your project? I haven't really followed this topic that much but I thought there were more people behind it.. That's kinda disappointing :/.
    I was thinking of joining the project as I am a professional .Net programmer and fluent in many different languages, although the only somewhat big project I've ever finished in C++ was an IRCClient which didn't even have a GUI as I was kinda turned off by amount of work I would have had to put in to get it somewhat visually attractive..
    Honestly though, what really detains me is that the amount of time to get semi-comfortable with the code is probably insane.
    A few years ago I would have gladly joined your project but now it's time I'd rather spend on other projects...
    Best of luck, though

  5. #80
    Senior Member Aristona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    Your contributions have been extremely helpful. I'm sure if you continue with all the help you've been providing, it'll be done in no time.

    ... oh wait, you never did. Fuck off.
    If you can give me one valid reason why should I (or generally, anyone) contribute to your so called open source project instead of working or contributing on real projects in Github, I'll contribute. Also, didn't your arrogance turned away so many potential contributors in the past or am I mistaken?

    To be honest, I'd prefer working on my personal startup projects or learn/use new tricks instead of working on rewriting awfully written old project which relies on old API's and doesn't even have slight connection with modern software development techniques. The last time I checked, it was untested, undocumented, had shitload of random named classes/methods/files in the same folder etc. (Seems like I can't even browse your so called open source project to check current situation - it's missing on Github)

    Seriously, why don't you just give up and work on developing your own game and kickstart it with whoever contributed to your project so far? If you took all the used time and resources on this side project and used them for a promising startup project, I'm sure you would be able to rock the IOS/Android market. There are alot of shiny toys which ease development and makes it fun so you don't need to deal with utterly low level things unless you're a masochist.

    One more thing, I truly wonder how you're motivating yourself to still work on this project with minimal contributions. I wish I had the same motivation you had so I wouldn't trash all my projects halfway through. Is there any trick for that?

    Quote Originally Posted by DoomBringer View Post
    Aristona alive?
    Make new gg server pls
    Well, I actually check G4L once or twice every month but not talking as much as I used to. I'll never touch KO ever again because it was incredibly hard to keep KI alive. We've went through double of the every crappy situation you can imagine. I prefer hopping in places where it's less chaotic.
    Last edited by Aristona; 11-07-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristona View Post
    If you can give me one valid reason why should I (or generally, anyone) contribute to your so called open source project instead of working or contributing on real projects in Github, I'll contribute. Also, didn't your arrogance turned away so many potential contributors in the past or am I mistaken?

    To be honest, I'd prefer working on my personal startup projects or learn/use new tricks instead of working on rewriting awfully written old project which relies on old API's and doesn't even have slight connection with modern software development techniques. The last time I checked, it was untested, undocumented, had shitload of random named classes/methods/files in the same folder etc. (Seems like I can't even browse your so called open source project to check current situation - it's missing on Github)

    Seriously, why don't you just give up and work on developing your own game and kickstart it with whoever contributed to your project so far? If you took all the used time and resources on this side project and used them for a promising startup project, I'm sure you would be able to rock the IOS/Android market. There are alot of shiny toys which ease development and makes it fun so you don't need to deal with utterly low level things unless you're a masochist.

    One more thing, I truly wonder how you're motivating yourself to still work on this project with minimal contributions. I wish I had the same motivation you had so I wouldn't trash all my projects halfway through. Is there any trick for that?
    Man you kind of remind me of warmonger.... all talk but you really don't know shit...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovemyko1 View Post
    Man you kind of remind me of warmonger.... all talk but you really don't know shit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aristona View Post
    instead of working on rewriting awfully written old project which relies on old API's and doesn't even have slight connection with modern software development techniques.
    lol, it is indeed amazing how much BS one can fit into a post.
    Perhaps you're right though, perhaps I should work on something with more impact, like a totally new social networking site. It shouldn't be too difficult to take Facebook's JS/HTML output and make something even better than Facebook! Oh wait, you attempted that already, so I should probably just stick to developing things myself.
    Last edited by twostars; 11-08-2013 at 12:46 AM. Reason: typo

  8. #83
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    What if.. Aristona.. is Warmonger O.O

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReesesPieces View Post
    What if.. Aristona.. is Warmonger O.O
    More like Reallizt.

    Now I know what's meant by "real" projects -- https://github.com/Aristona/Knight-Imperia-V4-Website
    +This is a project I've written back in 2010 so it lacks most of the modern features. Compatiple with any Knight Online v1298 database in case you want to use it.
    You put in so much effort to write that. Nice copyright.
    It takes a lot of effort to replace my "KODEVS" defines with "ARISTONA", doesn't it:
    Code:
            if (!defined('ARISTONA') || ARISTONA != 1)
    I didn't think much of Aristona in the first place, but I didn't think he'd go that low. What a retard...
    Last edited by twostars; 11-08-2013 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #85
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    Classic Turk "Developer"

  11. #86
    I am Timmeh Senior Member
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    OldSchoolKO is using this fork for their PK server that their making lol

  12. #87
    Senior Member Aristona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    lol, it is indeed amazing how much BS one can fit into a post.
    Perhaps you're right though, perhaps I should work on something with more impact, like a totally new social networking site. It shouldn't be too difficult to take Facebook's JS/HTML output and make something even better than Facebook! Oh wait, you attempted that already, so I should probably just stick to developing things myself.
    I have no idea why do you keep thinking I tried to code something better than Facebook, but I'll use my classic reply to you: I just created my own css and blue layout and tried to learn ajax, which was extremely rare back then. Nothing else.

    If it's going to make you happy, we're currently half way developing a real social networking platform localised for universities and using every possible up-to-date software development techniques. Agile, Jira, Git, SASS, TDD, CI, fully solid, fully tested, fully scalable, Laravel 4, Angular, Coffee, Bootstrap, API-centric, Resque, Redis, Cassandra; our dev environment has loads of best tools available: Vagrant, Puppet, Grunt, Yeoman; using QA tools such as Selenium, Codeception, Blitz, Phpunit, Jasmine etc. Right now I'm learning Android to develop our mobile application. Back then I just wanted to be a developer who can develop some shiny websites and be employed, now I have my standards much higher. Cloning Facebook's features is kid's play, I'm more interested about learning the engineering behind it.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    More like Reallizt.

    Now I know what's meant by "real" projects -- https://github.com/Aristona/Knight-Imperia-V4-Website

    You put in so much effort to write that. Nice copyright.
    It takes a lot of effort to replace my "KODEVS" defines with "ARISTONA", doesn't it:
    Code:
            if (!defined('ARISTONA') || ARISTONA != 1)
    I didn't think much of Aristona in the first place, but I didn't think he'd go that low. What a retard...
    Yeah, now we're talking about a license file which Github adds automatically if a license is not found during repository creation.

    As for the constant - I changed it back then thinking it would be unsafe to keep it as is. Not sure why, I was terrible back then and probably thought we could get hacked if someone could access to our controller, whoknows. What would I gain by renaming a constant anyway? Do people will be like; "Hey, look at this constant! It's named as Aristona! It must be him!!!" Actually that's fucking awful if you ask me, both renaming it or the whole idea of relying on it to limit access to our controllers.

    The only reason of it being there (as well as it's sister project sobafire, which at least had some minimal improvements on your models plus complete rewrite of models/controllers) is reference purposes. So often people asks for your previous projects during job interviews. Those awfully written (I believe it's still better than the majority of PHP devs nowadays, funnily enough) projects perfectly fit my situation because I can show them what I did years ago, what I did wrong and how in my current knowledge I would improve those.

    But hey, I don't work on those craps anymore. Learning new things are more fun and I had the first taste of it the day I decided stopping using your models as a mini framework. Your mini fw was perfectly valid until few 2-3 years ago and I'm sure if you would develop a PHP framework with current standards, you would come up with something really promising, and you could get alot of contributions without asking for them. I'm not here to judge your decisions, it's just nonsense to work on KO crap.

    Anyway, what is the difference between me taking your source files, editing/using on my personal projects; or you taking MGAME's KO source files, editing/using them to host your own private server? Can you also blame yourself for that like how you blame me? Do you plan on giving MGAMES credits when you fully emulate their game and cost them loads? Everybody has an evil side he rejects.

  13. #88
    SEXIEST NOSE ON EARTH Senior Member SheldonCooper's Avatar
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    Man's got a point twostars
    NoOneCanStopMe likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristona View Post
    I have no idea why do you keep thinking I tried to code something better than Facebook, but I'll use my classic reply to you: I just created my own css and blue layout and tried to learn ajax, which was extremely rare back then. Nothing else.
    That's bullshit, and you know it. You were trying to steal their layout & JS.
    My memory sucks, but it's not bad enough to manufacture details like that. You actually asked me to help figure out how the PHP side of things was going to work. LOL.

    It was extremely hilarious, and I recall mentioning/screenshotting it to several people at the time who can probably refresh our memories if we cared enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristona View Post
    Yeah, now we're talking about a license file which Github adds automatically if a license is not found during repository creation.
    Except that's more bullshit, as it doesn't; I've created several repositories and the default is no license at all. You added it. But sure, I can accept that was an oversight (not that you were even remotely considering the real developer when publishing it in the first place), as you might have not bothered to actually read the repo creation page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristona View Post
    As for the constant - I changed it back then thinking it would be unsafe to keep it as is. Not sure why, I was terrible back then and probably thought we could get hacked if someone could access to our controller, whoknows. What would I gain by renaming a constant anyway? Do people will be like; "Hey, look at this constant! It's named as Aristona! It must be him!!!" Actually that's fucking awful if you ask me, both renaming it or the whole idea of relying on it to limit access to our controllers.
    Yes, it's a constant. Yes, that's complete BS. Here, have a quote from your README:
    This is a project I've written back in 2010 so it lacks most of the modern features. Compatiple with any Knight Online v1298 database in case you want to use it.

    Note: Development stopped 3 years ago and it's here just for reference purposes.
    What would you gain? Well, since you're showing it in job interviews as your own work, it'd be awkward if they asked what "KODEVS" was, since it seems like some sort of development community, at the least, not knowing what KO actually was. If it was named "ARISTONA", you could easily get by that one by just telling them that's your usual online handle. No awkward explanations.

    BTW, I wrote it in 2009, thanks for asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristona View Post
    The only reason of it being there (as well as it's sister project sobafire, which at least had some minimal improvements on your models plus complete rewrite of models/controllers) is reference purposes. So often people asks for your previous projects during job interviews. Those awfully written (I believe it's still better than the majority of PHP devs nowadays, funnily enough) projects perfectly fit my situation because I can show them what I did years ago, what I did wrong and how in my current knowledge I would improve those.

    But hey, I don't work on those craps anymore. Learning new things are more fun and I had the first taste of it the day I decided stopping using your models as a mini framework. Your mini fw was perfectly valid until few 2-3 years ago and I'm sure if you would develop a PHP framework with current standards, you would come up with something really promising, and you could get alot of contributions without asking for them. I'm not here to judge your decisions, it's just nonsense to work on KO crap.

    Anyway, what is the difference between me taking your source files, editing/using on my personal projects; or you taking MGAME's KO source files, editing/using them to host your own private server? Can you also blame yourself for that like how you blame me? Do you plan on giving MGAMES credits when you fully emulate their game and cost them loads? Everybody has an evil side he rejects.
    I actually already have, years ago already. Yes, that project is awful, do you wish to know why? I wrote it in about 6 hours straight. Including the PUS. Overnight. I didn't have much time for it, so I rushed. I rushed, and not a great deal of thought was put into it. Someone wanted a panel, I whipped it up, it was done. Apparently others wanted it too, so I kept selling it until you had it leaked, as at the very least it was an improvement over the old one they were using.
    Ironically, while it was Reallizt that actually leaked it, now you're the one publishing the source on Github claiming it as your own. What a fucked up situation.

    I still don't know why you were using it for everything you were doing, not even I, back then, used it for anything. It was beyond terrible, and should not have been a learning resource for anyone (aside from coding to avoid SQL injections, but even then there were still some horrible replacements going on that should have simply been validations, instead). I honestly don't understand why you would, but meh.

    As far as the difference goes, that's more bullshit. Stop stretching the truth to suit your agenda. Ask anybody: every time they ask (or even in this thread!), I state explicitly what the project is (a continuation of mgame's leaked source which we've aimed to fix up considerably) and why it's like that (familiarity, for the sake of other developers who may have looked at their source already). I've also been working to rewrite it from underneath itself, as you might see from the replaced networking layer, packet handling, database layer, removal of Aujard, OS portability (i.e. *nix support), and such.
    Despite the major changes, I don't make any such claim that I own it. Not once, ever. This project is originally mgame's work, and I do not dispute that.

    Also, as you saw (when you actually forked the repo), there was no license attached (see? It's optional). I, at last, am not dumb enough to think I have the rights to something that I didn't write.

    You on the other hand not only "used it for your personal projects", but published it to Github as your own work to convince employers that you're "a developer with experience" (I cringe at what your employers must be dealing with...), continually claiming it as your own, even in your above post - despite the minimal real changes (changed constants, a few extra static pages, turkish comments, etc). I acknowledge that you edited it, but you did so quite minimally, so the vast majority of functional code is still my code as-is, without change. Database layer. Template engine. Site engine. The core functionality. Public site functionality (login/registration/account management/rankings/news/player info/item handling, etc).

    As crappy as it is, it's still my work. Not yours. Not your work. Especially not to give away as you please!
    Ironically, you also had it leaked initially, so I'd have thought you of all people wouldn't do so, perhaps over some slight guilt, if not common decency. Apparently you have neither, and claim it as your own to provide to job interviews.

    What in the actual fuck.

    In conclusion: You were never going to contribute to the project, you're only here to cause drama & increase your e-peen, so while this has been a pleasant chat, you can kindly fuck off now. I'd imagine you have a well-paying job to get back to, and a social networking platform to write. All more pleasant than KO.
    Last edited by twostars; 11-08-2013 at 11:53 PM.

  15. #90
    Senior Member Aristona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    That's bullshit, and you know it. You were trying to steal their layout & JS.
    My memory sucks, but it's not bad enough to manufacture details like that. You actually asked me to help figure out how the PHP side of things was going to work. LOL.
    Does Facebook's frontend sources look like something a complete newbie can download and write the backend for it? It has always been javascript heavy, and I had my baby steps into programming by messing around with Vinthian's and your panels. (apart from some random borland c++ stuff I've seen during school.) What I did was probably taking Facebook's fixed navigation CSS sources (fixed nav bars were extreme rare thing back then), tried to replicate my own plus trying to add some AJAX to the links. Isn't it how you learn stuff basically?

    You need to have a look at: The 11 Phases of a Web Developer?s Career (As Illustrated by Memes) | Nettuts+

    I fully agree. I believe Facebook thing related to phase #2, and me toying with your panel should be related to #6.

    Haven't you play soccer back when you were kid and tried to play like whoever your favorite soccer player is, trying to do the same tricks he does, wearing his soccer uniform?

    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    It was extremely hilarious, and I recall mentioning/screenshotting it to several people at the time who can probably refresh our memories if we cared enough.
    Definitely. I would also like to see it myself. Would be funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    Except that's more bullshit, as it doesn't; I've created several repositories and the default is no license at all. You added it. But sure, I can accept that was an oversight (not that you were even remotely considering the real developer when publishing it in the first place), as you might have not bothered to actually read the repo creation page.
    Probably not an oversight but rather a habit. I usually init all our repos with proper stuff like readme, license, gitignore, project template etc.

    I'm not sure if you remember, but there was a discussion about your panel on Snoxd and you ended up the conversation with a word like: "It's so old. I don't even care anymore. It's all yours." I'm sure we should dig that deeper and see what you've thought about your project years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    Yes, it's a constant. Yes, that's complete BS. Here, have a quote from your README:

    What would you gain? Well, since you're showing it in job interviews as your own work, it'd be awkward if they asked what "KODEVS" was, since it seems like some sort of development community, at the least, not knowing what KO actually was. If it was named "ARISTONA", you could easily get by that one by just telling them that's your usual online handle. No awkward explanations.

    BTW, I wrote it in 2009, thanks for asking.
    You wrote the initial stuff in 2009 - those controllers and views were written for KI 3. (I see voting/advertisement feature in account controller which I quickly coded for KI 3 release.)

    Anyway, initially I didn't think you would care about it after years, but if you really do care about it, I can update all the constant naming back to KODEVS and give you credits for whatever is yours. It's no problem - I can happily do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    I actually already have, years ago already. Yes, that project is awful, do you wish to know why? I wrote it in about 6 hours straight. Including the PUS. Overnight. I didn't have much time for it, so I rushed. I rushed, and not a great deal of thought was put into it. Someone wanted a panel, I whipped it up, it was done. Apparently others wanted it too, so I kept selling it until you had it leaked, as at the very least it was an improvement over the old one they were using.
    Ironically, while it was Reallizt that actually leaked it, now you're the one publishing the source on Github claiming it as your own. What a fucked up situation.
    I didn't leak it. I don't know who did either cause I can't remember the past well. One question though: why would I leak something I paid money for?

    The only thing I remember is; one day, we got hacked and everything on dedi were uploaded. Database, server files, tools (I believe a tiny app of yours were leaked too, was it a TBL editor or something?), panel etc. Is it really my fault? I know Realizzt hacked us once by figuring out my e-mail's password and sending a ticket to data center about dedi's password, but I'm not sure if he was the one who leaked your panel. We got hacked so many times and I stopped counting. There has even been a case where two hackers hacked us at the same time and they were trying to kick eachother out of dedi. Can you imagine how fucked up our situation was?

    Actually, you can get the same thing by typing "twostars panel" on Google and selecting one of the turkish forums/upload/warez sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post
    I still don't know why you were using it for everything you were doing, not even I, back then, used it for anything. It was beyond terrible, and should not have been a learning resource for anyone (aside from coding to avoid SQL injections, but even then there were still some horrible replacements going on that should have simply been validations, instead). I honestly don't understand why you would, but meh.
    You claim it's bad, but it's not that bad. Uses service locators, MVC based, contains a DBAL (which emulates prepared statements although with some flaws), contains a template engine, supports nested views, easily multilingual using Lang and passing params. All this with around 20KB models and classes which written back in 2009. If you think you did something terrible, you're overly underestimating yourself.

    Why did I develop many things on it and loved it religiously? Well, because it was awesome. It felt like cure for cancer after dealing with Vinthian's panel. (Remember tr(); th(); td();, procedural nosense stuff) I learned PHP toying with your panel, breaking it and rebuilding. At first, it looked so complicated (I barely knew what $this was, and why things didn't work if I erase that, lol) but one night, after toying with your panel all day long, things started to tick, everything made sense. I didn't sleep until morning. I kept developing things, from upgrading MyKOL to develop new stuff. By the time I learn the basics of PHP, I had a solid grasp of what is MVC and what are the basics of OOP.

    In the end, I developed so many things on it. Custom CMS sites, basic corporate websites, a lol fansite which taught me alot. Stopped using it when I met with Laravel 3.

    Really, you shouldn't underestimate your project. Have a look at Github, look some of the projects with at least 1K stars. They're terrible. Yours is way better even today. I don't know if something inspired you to develop that panel or you develop it using your imagination; regardless, what you did is the core functionality of every web framework out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by twostars View Post

    As far as the difference goes, that's more bullshit. Stop stretching the truth to suit your agenda. Ask anybody: every time they ask (or even in this thread!), I state explicitly what the project is (a continuation of mgame's leaked source which we've aimed to fix up considerably) and why it's like that (familiarity, for the sake of other developers who may have looked at their source already). I've also been working to rewrite it from underneath itself, as you might see from the replaced networking layer, packet handling, database layer, removal of Aujard, OS portability (i.e. *nix support), and such.
    Despite the major changes, I don't make any such claim that I own it. Not once, ever. This project is originally mgame's work, and I do not dispute that.

    Also, as you saw (when you actually forked the repo), there was no license attached (see? It's optional). I, at last, am not dumb enough to think I have the rights to something that I didn't write.

    You on the other hand not only "used it for your personal projects", but published it to Github as your own work to convince employers that you're "a developer with experience" (I cringe at what your employers must be dealing with...), continually claiming it as your own, even in your above post - despite the minimal real changes (changed constants, a few extra static pages, turkish comments, etc). I acknowledge that you edited it, but you did so quite minimally, so the vast majority of functional code is still my code as-is, without change. Database layer. Template engine. Site engine. The core functionality. Public site functionality (login/registration/account management/rankings/news/player info/item handling, etc).

    As crappy as it is, it's still my work. Not yours. Not your work. Especially not to give away as you please!
    Ironically, you also had it leaked initially, so I'd have thought you of all people wouldn't do so, perhaps over some slight guilt, if not common decency. Apparently you have neither, and claim it as your own to provide to job interviews.

    What in the actual fuck.

    In conclusion: You were never going to contribute to the project, you're only here to cause drama & increase your e-peen, so while this has been a pleasant chat, you can kindly fuck off now. I'd imagine you have a well-paying job to get back to, and a social networking platform to write. All more pleasant than KO.
    For sure majority of it is your work, but what is bad about people using it to develop their own projects? What is bad if I used your DBAL to handle my queries? I would be happy with people using my work to develop their own projects. If you're annoyed just because I didn't credit you, you're right, but as I wrote few paragraphs above, I didn't think you would care about it. You constantly bash your project and call it as garbage, why would you care about credits now? Pretty strange.

    Not really - apart from 1-2 multimillion dollar company, nobody knows anything. Not the companies nor not the software engineers with great graduation marks. They don't cringe at me - why would they? They're sick of software engineers using procedural code with zero knowledge. (I'm sick of them too.) As long as you know the core concept of OOP (nothing like SOLID is involved, just the absolute basics of OOP) and be able to write a basic class for converting currencies, they welcome you. On the other hand, I try to improve myself everyday, reading articles, following godlike developers, trying new things, willing to learn. That's what employers look for.

    I don't have a well paying job because I need to live in a very small city to take care of my family. IT related jobs are inexistent unless you enjoy uploading some images via Wordpress. I can pretty much earn what fulltime software developers earn by freelancing though, which is enough for me. I'm can live with minimal amounts, cause I barely value anything common people values, nor care about those.
    Last edited by Aristona; 11-09-2013 at 10:26 AM.

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