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Did anyone went to police after scam in ko :P?

This is a discussion on Did anyone went to police after scam in ko :P? within the General Chat forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; You obviously have NO idea what you are talking about. In one of your previous posts, you stated that paying ...
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  1. #61
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    You obviously have NO idea what you are talking about.

    In one of your previous posts, you stated that paying for premium makes the virtual property yours. By this logic, we can derive a conclusion such as:

    Premise One: Paying Premium makes KO items yours
    Premise Two: I pay for premium

    Conclusion One: Premium users can sell their items and chars for USD legally within K2's TOS
    Conclusion Two: I can post my fucking name like GROBS did in logos and not get banned because im a "premium" user.

    There is no such thing as implied legality. Unless its DOWN on paper and you have a signature and have it NOTARIZED (in the US), no such agreement between two people can exist.

    Remember, the burden of proof doesn't fall on the accused.

    By your logic, someone who sends money to a friend and then wants it back later can take the friend who got the money to small claims and get his money back with a WU receipt. No.[/b]

    I never said that the items "are yours" if you pay for prem. You are completely confused or off ur rocker. However, when you buy something, and sell something, you DO enter into a contract. If, for instance, we do a USD transactions for the an account and you scam the account back, I can, by the nature of this simple fact of our "agreement" should be able to legally either get a refund or get the acct. Now, you are correct in the proof part, and I DID STATE THAT (please quote what's actually said), so I got noooo idea what you are arguing about. I showed you an example of someone who actually makes a legal living selling what some people call "pixels" in a game. The problem becomes building up enough proof, but that can be done if 2 people were willing to take the time. Such as, if I make up a contract , receipts, mail the info certified/registered, etc. Then you bet, you could take someone to small claims and get the money back and maybe even set forth for legal litigation. It is also my 100% belief that this will happen soon. AND I even go as far to predict it will be in one of the more "adult" oriented virtual games because there, people who actually have the time, energy, resources and knowledge of such things will be the ones effected and involved. Get ur facts straight if you want to make a sound argument and if u are going to quote me then quote me, don't just say I said something.

  2. #62
    yoursodone12
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    I never said that the items "are yours" if you pay for prem. You are completely confused or off ur rocker. However, when you buy something, and sell something, you DO enter into a contract. If, for instance, we do a USD transactions for the an account and you scam the account back, I can, by the nature of this simple fact of our "agreement" should be able to legally either get a refund or get the acct. Now, you are correct in the proof part, and I DID STATE THAT (please quote what's actually said), so I got noooo idea what you are arguing about. I showed you an example of someone who actually makes a legal living selling what some people call "pixels" in a game. The problem becomes building up enough proof, but that can be done if 2 people were willing to take the time. Such as, if I make up a contract , receipts, mail the info certified/registered, etc. Then you bet, you could take someone to small claims and get the money back and maybe even set forth for legal litigation. It is also my 100% belief that this will happen soon. AND I even go as far to predict it will be in one of the more "adult" oriented virtual games because there, people who actually have the time, energy, resources and knowledge of such things will be the ones effected and involved. Get ur facts straight if you want to make a sound argument and if u are going to quote me then quote me, don't just say I said something.[/b]

    Ok, prove he didn't give the item to you?

    K2 says your IP didnt log? He says he gave you a physical piece of paper with account info on it.

    You now have to prove him wrong. Burden of proof still wouldn't fall on him because he is still the accused.


    This also brings me to a point about theft and larceny: There is a reason most state laws limit such theft to tangible property.

  3. #63
    ISeeYouPee
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    i have never went to police
    i just think if they scam they are lossers but there should be a place where u can go and report scammers / hackers

  4. #64
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    Ok, prove he didn't give the item to you?

    K2 says your IP didnt log? He says he gave you a physical piece of paper with account info on it.

    You now have to prove him wrong. Burden of proof still wouldn't fall on him because he is still the accused.
    This also brings me to a point about theft and larceny: There is a reason most state laws limit such theft to tangible property.[/b]

    You act like every business transaction is tangible, wake up dude. Most products in the world atm are "service" oriented and more and more are virtual. Just because it isn't tangible does not mean that people can make a binding contract, either verbally or written and break it. If I am a business consultant and I talk to you over the phone for 5 hrs or drive to ur office and consult you and you don't pay me, I might or might not be able to "prove" our conversation took place or that I was helping you, it's not like I'm going to video us together at ur office, but if we make a contract and you don't pay, you are liable. Did you know that over 300mil usd were done in just virtual items on eBay? That's a lot of ebooks, music dls, gaming items, online courses, etc. You don't think that's real commerce and subject to law? They too had a problem with all the scammers charging back and so they chose not to allow those types of transactions at all rather than take on the matter. Just do yourself a favor and think about it, I'll say it again, it doesn't take a law to tell you if something is right or wrong and at some point, scamming virtual items, here or any where else will be a serious topic in litigation. It's inevitable because of the high volum of money being passed around and the growing scale of this kind of business. I'll also say it again K2 TOS does not supersede laws nor does it negate one from being pursued criminally.

  5. #65
    yoursodone12
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    You act like every business transaction is tangible, wake up dude. Most products in the world atm are "service" oriented and more and more are virtual. Just because it isn't tangible does not mean that people can make a binding contract, either verbally or written and break it. If I am a business consultant and I talk to you over the phone for 5 hrs or drive to ur office and consult you and you don't pay me, I might or might not be able to "prove" our conversation took place or that I was helping you, it's not like I'm going to video us together at ur office, but if we make a contract and you don't pay, you are liable. Did you know that over 300mil usd were done in just virtual items on eBay? That's a lot of ebooks, music dls, gaming items, online courses, etc. You don't think that's real commerce and subject to law? They too had a problem with all the scammers charging back and so they chose not to allow those types of transactions at all rather than take on the matter. Just do yourself a favor and think about it, I'll say it again, it doesn't take a law to tell you if something is right or wrong and at some point, scamming virtual items, here or any where else will be a serious topic in litigation. It's inevitable because of the high volum of money being passed around and the growing scale of this kind of business. I'll also say it again K2 TOS does not supersede laws nor does it negate one from being pursued criminally.[/b]

    But it does. When you sell a virtual item, you aren't selling it. Your selling your time put into it. Your going to have a very fun time proving that you were scammed for your "time". There just isn't a feasible option in proving such crimes.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    But it does. When you sell a virtual item, you aren't selling it. Your selling your time put into it. Your going to have a very fun time proving that you were scammed for your "time". There just isn't a feasible option in proving such crimes.[/b]

    Dude ur just arguing, not even looking at the fact that you make a contract with someone to buy and sell. If you agree to sell something, and you don't deliver it's fraud. It's just what it is tangible, service, virtual, etc. And what's the difference if a scammer gets a shit load of items and sells them or you farm them urself? Is the scammer getting paid for your time? That's where your logic is too narrow. You need to see bigger than just that the item is in KO. You really didn't read anything I wrote, you are stuck with ur blinders on and in actual fact not reasoning. Step back and take a look at the big picture, 300mil usd in virtual items in 2006 on eBay (real money for virtual items), ebooks, music dl's, courses online, online help, pictures, programs, movies, art, programming, etc etc etc etc etc etc. Commerce is commerce and contracts are contracts.

  7. #67
    BJK
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    got scmmed, and the sacmmer was in hospital why??

  8. #68
    DeathInTheNight
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    Dude ur just arguing, not even looking at the fact that you make a contract with someone to buy and sell. If you agree to sell something, and you don't deliver it's fraud. It's just what it is tangible, service, virtual, etc. And what's the difference if a scammer gets a shit load of items and sells them or you farm them urself? Is the scammer getting paid for your time? That's where your logic is too narrow. You need to see bigger than just that the item is in KO. You really didn't read anything I wrote, you are stuck with ur blinders on and in actual fact not reasoning. Step back and take a look at the big picture, 300mil usd in virtual items in 2006 on eBay (real money for virtual items), ebooks, music dl's, courses online, online help, pictures, programs, movies, art, programming, etc etc etc etc etc etc. Commerce is commerce and contracts are contracts.[/b]
    I kinda get ur point but how can say a rol+3 in an online game be compaired to say a song off the web.
    The song(and say, movie,ebooks,pictures, all the stuff you wrote) can actually be transfered and used in real life ie:dvds, mp3 players, you get the jist of it.
    Where as say the rol cant be used in real life, only within the confines of the KO world.
    Yes getting scammed sucks, but can it really be compaired to other types of theft?

  9. #69
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    I kinda get ur point but how can say a rol+3 in an online game be compaired to say a song off the web.
    The song(and say, movie,ebooks,pictures, all the stuff you wrote) can actually be transfered and used in real life ie:dvds, mp3 players, you get the jist of it.
    Where as say the rol cant be used in real life, only within the confines of the KO world.
    Yes getting scammed sucks, but can it really be compaired to other types of theft?[/b]

    Well, all of them are virtual, none are tangible in a "solid" sense. You play a song, u play this game, u hear the song, u see and hear the game, neither are solid objects and all are considered virtual. I didn't make it up either, just google ebay virtual items article and you will see what I am talking about. Virtual items are a billion dollar industry, and because people give real money it is considered commerce (and it's growing faster than most real life industries). The problem is it's hard to prove people received it, this is the ONLY reason eBay doesn't allow the sale, and the majority of the problems with virtual items is that scammers know this and use it to fuck people and companies out of real money. I am not the one who makes these comparisons up, real life does and I am just pointing them out (mostly because unethical people here seem to think that because it's virtual, it's ok to scam, it's not and whoever thinks this is a fucking retard).

  10. #70
    Tanel
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    i know a guy in Estonia.. who used to go the same school as me.
    He keylogged ppl in runescape and ko. Sold the stuff he got for usd. And holy shit he made a lot of money..
    But then 1 guy found out who he was , went to the police department .
    The scammer guy got ~1800 usd fine and his 2pc's got taken away for a year.. + 120 of communty work + if he gets cought with that shit again he'll get a arested/sent to jail (and he can start pickin up sopexD). 2x pc's and the fine didnt hurt too much.. neither the fine cuz he made way more money than he lost to police.

    + say if a guy who scammed me lived lose to where i live.. at least the sam country .. i wouldnt go to the police.. i would just beat the crap out of him.. and have him give everything back.. and then beat him a bit more..

  11. #71
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    i know a guy in Estonia.. who used to go the same school as me.
    He keylogged ppl in runescape and ko. Sold the stuff he got for usd. And holy shit he made a lot of money..
    But then 1 guy found out who he was , went to the police department .
    The scammer guy got ~1800 usd fine and his 2pc's got taken away for a year.. + 120 of communty work + if he gets cought with that shit again he'll get a arested/sent to jail (and he can start pickin up sopexD). 2x pc's and the fine didnt hurt too much.. neither the fine cuz he made way more money than he lost to police.

    + say if a guy who scammed me lived lose to where i live.. at least the sam country .. i wouldnt go to the police.. i would just beat the crap out of him.. and have him give everything back.. and then beat him a bit more..[/b]

    Wow this is an awesome reply and proves my point exactly. But here, in particular, the person used hack tools. For those of you who do not know the laws in the USA, if you actually hack someone or someones acct, it is a Federal Offense and you are prosecuted in Federal Court, not locally. Under the Patriot Act, such actions are deemed cyber terrorism and you are treated like the criminal you are. The ones of you who know it's wrong but need to be told that it's unlawful in order to keep yourself from being a moron, you've just been told.

    Here's a link to another topic I started with an article on someone arrested for stealing virtual items in a game...

    http://www.ko4life.com/forums/index....owtopic=231686

  12. #72
    Senior Member Private's Avatar
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    this is where this community fails at just using scamming to describe everything possible

    1 scamming = scamming , any type of untrue actions leading towards personal gain
    2 hacking = hacking , to actually hack via bug or brute force or program and taking control
    3 keylogging = keylogging , self explanatory

    2 and 3 = prosecutable
    1 = highly unlikely unless a form of 2 and 3 are used

  13. #73
    Senior Member Rad_Archer's Avatar
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    this is where this community fails at just using scamming to describe everything possible

    1 scamming = scamming , any type of untrue actions leading towards personal gain
    2 hacking = hacking , to actually hack via bug or brute force or program and taking control
    3 keylogging = keylogging , self explanatory

    2 and 3 = prosecutable
    1 = highly unlikely unless a form of 2 and 3 are used[/b]

    Unless a judge disagrees with your opinion. I can take you to small claims court for just about anything, however, the burden of proof lies on the prosecutions shoulders. That is hard in most cases, but you and I know not impossible in every case...

  14. #74
    Steven Senior Member doomdudenoob's Avatar
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    Police is a bit slow so I just got his personal information from WU, bought a ticket, made a surprise visit and... I guesss what I did is against the law, but thats how I do business here.... :wub:[/b]
    lol did you beat him up or something lol...i would have XD

  15. #75
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    got scmmed, and the sacmmer was in hospital why?? [/b]
    liies , e-thug.

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