Im sorry but this is real immature and low.

[Desi]

Ok I just read all 6 pages of this.. You're all severely bored people.. AND NOW I HAVE A HEADACHE :angry:

You will never change other ppls views.. having said that.......................

ENJOY! :wacko:

[Kik0]

Go here: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20010407/bob14.asp

"out of nothing, nothing comes" is far too simplistic for something as complex as the universe. In some of the far reaches of space the fundamental constants have different (albiet slightly) values to the ones found here. Why would this occur in a created universe? The only reason I can think of is to conduct "experiments" under different conditions. Any creator sees the planet as an experiment, nothing more(of course who am I to assume things about the kind of intellect that could create everything?)

Personally, I don't need to know where everything came from or where anything will go after I'm dead.

[0000000]

- no one claims the big bang was created out of nothing, the big bang was supposedly created from a singularity, which is the complete opposite. This subject of pre-big bang is silly to debate since it is unproveable. What is proveable is that the big bang actually happened. Let me explain to you that a singularity is a infinitly dense point of infinite mass and infinite energy, similar to the core of a black hole. What goes on in there can only be hypothesised but it is quite likely that our current concepts of physics would break down. We do know, from galactic inertia, that since everything in the universe is moving away, the universe is expanding. Logically due to the law of inertia, it was once contracted together. We do not need to know the exact cause to know that this is true.

- the dating of the earth via the decay of uranium, thorium and potassium does not depend on the factors you claim, i dont understand why it would.
- yes there have been discrepancies in the concluded date of the earth, but the margin of error is only something like 0.001%
- the only reason shorter dates were given in the past was because radioactivity and relativity were unknown.


Ultimately, creationism is too hard to defend. Trying to disprove the big bang/evolution does not in any way prove creationism. Even the most basic estimates of the age of the earth from simple calculations of heat loss show that it is at least several millions of years old, and this does not take into account radioactive heating of the earth's crust. Judging from the book of Genesis, the earth is only a few thousand years old at most, which is CLEARLY false. Creationism disproved.

Intelligent design has already been defeated in the American courts as an unfit theory for schools, but i will summarise the findings for you. ID proposes that some species are too complex to have evolved naturally over time, and the only possible way they can exist is by the design of some sort of creator. The 1 case in point was the phlagelum of a tiny little creature. This is like a tail that they use to swim, it has 30 unique parts almost like a motor. They claimed that there was no evolutionary precedent for this phlagelum, that it was totally unique and perfect (it would not function in any other way). However it has been shown that the phlagelum can function perfectly with a large amount of parts removed, and therefore lacking these parts it has been shown to have evolved from other species. Intelligent Design is a hoax created by the Discovery Institute, which is a far-right christian lobby posing as a scientific organisation.

I think i've said enough about creationism, and i never really studied this field properly, i was more interested in black holes and the like.

Btw, i know you ripped that information from www.evolution-facts.org, which is a christian website with some seriously dodgy scientific information. Real science isnt about protecting an agenda, these guys are only interested in protecting their bible agenda.

[Wendolyn]

I actually didn't get my information from that site, but yeah, I did research a lot of it from the net, and put some of it in my own words.

And furthermore the Big Bang is not "proveable" in any way. In fact, on doing research on the subject, I found a website that lists 42 reasons as to why the Big Bang is entirely unscientific, and is devoid of logic and common sense.

And have you ever read the book of Genesis? The bible has never claimed that the earth is only a few thousand years old.

That's assuming that the "days" that God used to create the earth were literal 24 hour days. And "young earth creationism" isn't widely taught in even Christian colleges.

There's an entire spectrum of creationism ranging from young earth creationism to the Omphalos hypothesis, and even the Gap theory. Different Christian denominations teach different forms and theories of creationism, so feel free to attack young earth creationism as much as you want, because personally I don't believe in it anyway.

And for as many bible wielding Christians as they are, trying to disprove the evolutionary theory, there are just as many whacko athiests sitting there, thinking of new ways they can try to tear holes into Christian doctrine and beliefs.

You athiests claim that Christians are full of hate, and bitterness, and what not, and yet your the ones calling us Nazi's, and throwing out insults, and going on rampages.

So you athiests going psycho trying to prove your case against Christianity are just as bad as the Christians who go door to door trying to shove religon down people's throats. You're doing the same thing, except you're just trying to shove anti-religon down people's throats.

Now breathe..relax...and realize that there's more to life than bashing people's religons, and trying to get under people's skin. Because it's not going to work against me, and it won't work against anyone who has any kind of strong faith in God. It's impossible for you to change my mind, and I'm going to think that you're crazy for not believing in something so obvious, and you're going to think that I'm crazy for believing in God, so what is the point in arguing about it? :wub:

[0000000]

Actually im agnostic not atheist, and im not trying to flame you. As much as i hate religion, i will defend peoples right to be religious. What i object to is religion interfering in state business (ie schools). It is unconstitutional anyway in the USA.

I have no vested interest in defending evolution and the big bang, they might be false, but as theories go they are very sound and extremely difficult to disprove. Im not defending them specifically, im defending the scientific process that arrived at these theories being overwhelmingly likely. If there was the same evidence point to creationism then i would defend that, but frankly there isn't.

And you are correct that the 10000 years does not appear in the bible, i made an error. It is however a figure declared by new-earth creationists. Part of the problem with debating with these people is that they see it fit to interpret the bible in ways purely to spite the evolutionists. For example they will claim that the 1st of gods days of creation just happened to be millions of years long. You cant just say that, where is the evidence? there is no evidence from the bible, it is just a book. It is not Science.

I think its you who needs to relax, if your faith is strong then you should be able to withstand a little cynicism. Sure religion has many good points but why teach them in a religious context? We know that stealing and killing is wrong, we dont need to fear a god to not do it. What i object to is the homophobia, genocide, slavery and outright violence contained in the bible, much of which instigated by God himself, for the so called good of man. This is wrong.

No one is shoving anti-religion down peoples throats, we are shoving FREE THOUGHT down their throats. It just so happens that free thought tends to clash with religious doctrine.

[Dragonfaire]

Originally posted by 187
No I do not , as in my post I think a black person using it is even MORE wrong as he is only helping those that use this word in a negative fashion towards others, I feel what your saying about the turk issue to , same shit , but there is a difference, im not turk and not sure if that by calling a turkish person a turk is really offensive, I think its the words before and after turk that really are the ones correct ? Unless Turk is the equivelent of Nigger ? As far as im concerned a ass is an ass , there nation should have no play in the fact , theres asses in all nations and by using there heritage in the form of insulting is degrading to yourself as much as the one your talking about .

Let me just say this. If I were to say oh well this is all just freaking "turkish" you would know what the jest of that would be the same as someone saying oh lmao you got "k2ed". So yes to alot of people calling some one a "turk" IS very much the same thing as using the term nigger. I am from the south and I unfortunately hear that word alot. It bothers me greatly.

[Dragonfaire]

Originally posted by 0000000
Actually im agnostic not atheist, and im not trying to flame you. As much as i hate religion, i will defend peoples right to be religious. What i object to is religion interfering in state business (ie schools). It is unconstitutional anyway in the USA. *

I have no vested interest in defending evolution and the big bang, they might be false, but as theories go they are very sound and extremely difficult to disprove. Im not defending them specifically, im defending the scientific process that arrived at these theories being overwhelmingly likely. If there was the same evidence point to creationism then i would defend that, but frankly there isn't. *

And you are correct that the 10000 years does not appear in the bible, i made an error. It is however a figure declared by new-earth creationists. Part of the problem with debating with these people is that they see it fit to interpret the bible in ways purely to spite the evolutionists. For example they will claim that the 1st of gods days of creation just happened to be millions of years long. You cant just say that, where is the evidence? there is no evidence from the bible, it is just a book. It is not Science. *

I think its you who needs to relax, if your faith is strong then you should be able to withstand a little cynicism. Sure religion has many good points but why teach them in a religious context? We know that stealing and killing is wrong, we dont need to fear a god to not do it. What i object to is the homophobia, genocide, slavery and outright violence contained in the bible, much of which instigated by God himself, for the so called good of man. This is wrong.

No one is shoving anti-religion down peoples throats, we are shoving FREE THOUGHT down their throats. It just so happens that free thought tends to clash with religious doctrine.

I am also agnostic however to "hate" religion is absurd. While I do not partake in organized religion I do belive that it gives a set of basic rules that some people need in their lives. Some people DO need an authority figure seen or unseen to help them deal with life. I will not deny anyone what they basically need. I personally like to set my own rules and just try to be the best caring person I can be. Everyone needs for something different then every one else. we are all alike in basic forms but everyone's soul reaches out for something a little different. In the end it boils down to love but not always the same kind of love.

[Wendolyn]

I'm totally relaxed, and I can stand a little cynicism. You haven't heard me yell out "Oohh YoU SuXorsss You Suxxxx!!!! OMGGGZZZZ!!!!!"

But yeah..I'm always going to think that homosexuality is wrong, the same as killing, stealing, lying, etc;.

Those weren't always just Christian values. Those used to be the values of a nation.

You couldn't have a found a gay phone sex line being advertised on TV, let's say...30 or 40 years ago.

But, once again, those are just my values and beliefs, and I don't shove them down someone's throat, or try to convince them..

In fact this is the first time I've ever even discussed my religon on the internet, other than in personal conversations with my friends.
B)

[the_man_slayer]

Originally posted by Wendolyn


I'm always going to think that homosexuality is wrong, the same as killing, stealing, lying, etc;. *

How the fuk is homosexuality wrong!? If people choose to prefer dating someone of the same sex thats their choice. It is no where near as morally and legally wrong as killing someone. Being homosexual doesnt harm people like killing can, like lying can, and what this topic is mainly about- like racist remarks can harm people. Why is homosexuality as bad as your examples? Or are you just a homophobe?

[the_man_slayer]

Originally posted by Dragonfaire

So yes to alot of people calling some one a "turk" IS very much the same thing as using the term nigger.

Sorry, but it's not exactly the same. True both terms are used to abuse someone due to their nationality, but when someone calls someone a "turk" they are just saying the nationality of that person basically. The term "nigger" was given to africans and used by americans ever since the years of the slave trading. Unlike people calling someone a "turk", the term "nigger" was labelled onto these africans and was used to portray their low status in the society and displayed how meaningless they were as they were labelled and treated like shit basically. "Nigger" has much more of a deeper meaning

[Kik0]

Originally posted by the_man_slayer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(the_man_slayer)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Dragonfaire

So yes to alot of people calling some one a "turk" IS very much the same thing as using the term nigger.

Sorry, but it's not exactly the same. True both terms are used to abuse someone due to their nationality, but when someone calls someone a "turk" they are just saying the nationality of that person basically. The term "nigger" was given to africans and used by americans ever since the years of the slave trading. Unlike people calling someone a "turk", the term "nigger" was labelled onto these africans and was used to portray their low status in the society and displayed how meaningless they were as they were labelled and treated like shit basically. "Nigger" has much more of a deeper meaning[/b]

True, I have no problem being called a scot. "Eng" doesn't really work though, does it?

[the_man_slayer]

Exactly, thats why i said it's not exactly the same. Doesnt have the same effect. True both abusing someone by saying their nationality and calling someone a "nigger" can be seen as similar. The dept and meaning of the words are far different tho. Usually when someone insult's someone using their nationality, for example- 'you fat dumb arse american', your insulting THEM based on their nationality rather than someone calling someone a "nigger" which is basing what someones nationality to them

[187]

Originally posted by Dragonfaire+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dragonfaire)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-187

No I do not , as in my post I think a black person using it is even MORE wrong as he is only helping those that use this word in a negative fashion towards others, I feel what your saying about the turk issue to , same shit , but there is a difference, im not turk and not sure if that by calling a turkish person a turk is really offensive, I think its the words before and after turk that really are the ones correct ? Unless Turk is the equivelent of Nigger ? As far as im concerned a ass is an ass , there nation should have no play in the fact , theres asses in all nations and by using there heritage in the form of insulting is degrading to yourself as much as the one your talking about .

Let me just say this. If I were to say oh well this is all just freaking "turkish" you would know what the jest of that would be the same as someone saying oh lmao you got "k2ed". So yes to alot of people calling some one a "turk" IS very much the same thing as using the term nigger. I am from the south and I unfortunately hear that word alot. It bothers me greatly.[/b]

That is exactly why I said I cant comment on that as im not sure if that is offensive to them , to me , my opinion if you say " Hey , that dude is a Turk " , ill asume you mean simply that he is from Turkey ( hope i spelled that right ), same as saying " Hey , that guy is black " . So if you tell me what the equivelent word to "Nigger " is as a insult to someone from Turkey I can promise you I wont be saying whatever that is . Bottom line is that there are many different views in life, who can really say who is right ? Christian ? Jewish ? Athest ? Muslim ? , Im not sure what is the right thing to believe , but what I do know and believe is what I see everyday and live through , I honestly think the end of time will be the only way to PROVE a path that all should take, which is why I say " If you like it , I love it " " To each his own " , etc......

[Wendolyn]

I'm not a homophobe. I'm not scared of a gay, and I don't hate them.

I just happen to think that what they do is sick. It's a lifestyle, and I think it's a disgusting lifestyle. And when did I say that being a gay is as bad as killing someone? I just simply mentioned things that I think are wrong.

But I like how you throw the word around to anyone who doesn't think that being gay is an "ok" thing.

Pretty soon I'll be called a boogerphobe, because I think picking your nose is gross...

:rollseyes:

[NYchris]

I agree with wend he has a lot of great points and knows what hes talking about. About the gay topic I think it is wrong also because nature didnt intend two guys to get together like a guy and a girl should. Someone said how is it wrong if its their choice but then again how is it wrong to kill or rape someone and be sick in their mind its their choice to do that as well. None of us are perfect but none of us can judge another to be honest that is left to god.