This is what is wrong with the American education system and how "separation of church and state" is being taken to extremes

**vandy_vs_gator** · 04-05-2008, 12:42 PM

I have a ton of things to say about this, but the punch line is: the kid is a self-righteous punk who probably thinks the world is 9000 years old.

And we shall not make an idol? Rofl, what's the cross called then? It was written in the article that the only problem the teacher had was with the Bible passage. If he's allowed to write that, then I guess other people can write:

Lucifer 6:66
The only way to Hell
Is through my gates.[/b]

Yep. Like the teacher said cross could stay but the bible words no. Kid refused so he got a "0" You know people get written up all the time because they do not follow the rules. They basically say no church in school. Means no praying ect.

Separation of Church and Forums? Seems kinda weird to have a topic like this on a forum that deals with online gaming. It is offtopic but this has gotten way out of hand I think -_-[/b]

I think there is a rule on forum about no religion :P

**Shurt** · 04-05-2008, 12:56 PM

God is like your parents. If i talk shit about your mother, would you be upset?
I understand their state of mind very well, which is why I know when to keep my mouth shut even if I don't believe what they believe.
That is what you are doing wrong parasitic. You know that he is offended by what you are saying and all you are doing it pushing it further by making more jokes about it. Offering your opinion by saying you don't believe in it is not a problem. You can even look at religion in a scientific view (Which is stupid imo) to "prove" that a belief does not satisfy Newton's law (even more stupid). But making jokes out of someone's belief crosses the line. Call it ethics or call it morals, either way, its still plain wrong.[/b]

Not necessarily, because like I said, that's you're opinion. Maybe it's just my state of mind, but opinionated statements, even if they personally attack me, don't bother me at all.

And just as a note, I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just in this for the back-and-forth discussion, not out to piss anyone off.

TunaFishyMe · 04-05-2008, 01:05 PM

Not necessarily, because like I said, that's you're opinion. Maybe it's just my state of mind, but opinionated statements, even if they personally attack me, don't bother me at all.

And just as a note, I'm not trying to offend anyone. Just in this for the back-and-forth discussion, not out to piss anyone off.[/b]

yea man..i know you arent trying to offend anyone.
Personally though, if someone said something about my parents (and meant it of course) i would probably laugh it off but in reality, I wouldn't be too pleased. It is the same for their God. As far as I'm concerned, middle eastern people are extremely religious. Bashing their God is worse than bashing their parents. It might not necessarily be your parents, but someone you really admire or something along those lines. Whether you believe in their God or not, I think its very childish and immature to purposely offend someone's belief even if it is your opinion.

**Parasitic** · 04-05-2008, 01:11 PM

God is like your parents. If i talk shit about your mother, would you be upset?
I understand their state of mind very well, which is why I know when to keep my mouth shut even if I don't believe what they believe.
That is what you are doing wrong parasitic. You know that he is offended by what you are saying and all you are doing it pushing it further by making more jokes about it. Offering your opinion by saying you don't believe in it is not a problem. You can even look at religion in a scientific view (Which is stupid imo) to "prove" that a belief does not satisfy Newton's law (even more stupid). But making jokes out of someone's belief crosses the line. Call it ethics or call it morals, either way, its still plain wrong.[/b]

I've been totally serious this whole time, and please, point out my "jokes". If I've offended any one, them I'm sorry, I must've gotten a little hot under the collar and just started ranting again ( I do that a lot ).

TunaFishyMe · 04-05-2008, 01:15 PM

kk, I r get it now, my bad :lol: but seriously, what about just saying "i dont believe in god i believe in my monkey god" ?[/b]

maybe i shouldnt have pointed names. But you get my point.

**Parasitic** · 04-05-2008, 01:18 PM

maybe i shouldnt have pointed names. But you get my point.[/b]

I was being serious, I said "I get it" because durka cleared something up for me, and the "but seriously, what about just saying "i dont believe in god i believe in my monkey god" ?" was another thing I wanted him to clear up. Would he consider it bad ethics if I said, "I don't believe in your god, but I do believe in the monkey god?" The monkey god is real too, according to Hindus.

Edit, and besides, this is a debate after all, we all have different view points, its kinda hard not to offend some one, if you can't take getting stepped on every now and then, then gtfo. durka knows I do it all for the sake of the debate, its not directed at him.

TunaFishyMe · 04-05-2008, 01:43 PM

I was being serious, I said "I get it" because durka cleared something up for me, and the "but seriously, what about just saying "i dont believe in god i believe in my monkey god" ?" was another thing I wanted him to clear up. Would he consider it bad ethics if I said, "I don't believe in your god, but I do believe in the monkey god?" The monkey god is real too, according to Hindus.

Edit, and besides, this is a debate after all, we all have different view points, its kinda hard not to offend some one, if you can't take getting stepped on every now and then, then gtfo. durka knows I do it all for the sake of the debate, its not directed at him.[/b]

i apologize if i misunderstood your meaning of monkey god. Regardless, you are only an instance of the point I am trying to make. If you are being serious, then by all means. I am more referring to people who deliberately mock turks or Christians and then go about saying they have great morals/ethics. Opinions can be expressed, but you have to choose the right words. This isn't just about religion. Anything that is very controversial, people should express their opinions by using the right words. That is very common sense in a professional world.

Zxenke · 04-05-2008, 01:44 PM

Yep. Like the teacher said cross could stay but the bible words no. Kid refused so he got a "0" You know people get written up all the time because they do not follow the rules. They basically say no church in school. Means no praying ect.[/b]

That is why I made this saying it went too far. He followed rules in regards to what the project required. This is a battle between the public school system's "separation of church and state" and the First Amendment. I don't think the kid cares he got a 0, or even the fact he got a detention for ripping up the "contract" the school made him sign to give up his First Amendment rights, lol.

I'm just curious how it is wrong for someone to pray over his meal at lunch. How it is wrong for someone to put on an art project some religious conviction they may have. Guaranteed, I could go to the public school near my home town, walk into the art room or whatever it is, and find some art project hanging up that either bashes Christianity or promotes some other religion (Islam, Satanism, etc). When it is bashing Christianity or promoting another religion, it's called tolerance, but when it is about Christianity, it's called wrong. The people this kind of stuff offends, seriously need to get some common sense

agendas · 04-06-2008, 12:12 AM

kk, I r get it now, my bad :lol: but seriously, what about just saying "i dont believe in god i believe in my monkey god" ?[/b]

i am weasel

Honestly, (and I'm not picking on you specifically, this is more of a general question to every religious person) I've never understood why religious types get al up in arms when someone denounces their god.[/b]

because who has the rigth to say stuff about their god? they really dont have that right to infringe upon their beliefs and i think it is ethically wrong as well as morally wrong to do that to anyones religion / beliefs / scientologists <------ lmao

@ parasitic i would say well im sorry i dont believe in your god or im content with mine but i wudnt say he's a fake or stupid or your stupid for believing it thats not nice

DURKA = nice

**Shurt** · 04-06-2008, 12:33 AM

i am weasel
because who has the rigth to say stuff about their god? they really dont have that right to infringe upon their beliefs and i think it is ethically wrong as well as morally wrong to do that to anyones religion / beliefs / scientologists <------ lmao[/b]

Whoa, so it's ethically/morally wrong? I assume that would make you ethically/morally deficient then, right? Seeing as you just did the thing that you were describing to me.

Anyway, I suppose that I just won't understand it. I did see your comment Tuna, and, while I suppose that it makes sense why people are offended, I just don't have that reaction I guess. Could be the atheism, but who knows.

agendas · 04-06-2008, 02:43 AM

Whoa, so it's ethically/morally wrong? I assume that would make you ethically/morally deficient then, right? Seeing as you just did the thing that you were describing to me.

Anyway, I suppose that I just won't understand it. I did see your comment Tuna, and, while I suppose that it makes sense why people are offended, I just don't have that reaction I guess. Could be the atheism, but who knows.[/b]

i did it as sarcastic joke to contradict my saying lol glad someone picked up on it ^^

PaPaSmurF · 04-06-2008, 09:04 PM

Do you have ANY idea how many hundreds of thousands of scientists have dismissed christianity as a theory? Compare this to the number of "scientists" teaching it (almost always in the southern USA...) and you have an absolutely massive consensus of opinion.

You speak like I am on my own here. Are you that ignorant? I am starting to believe that you have next to no science education. Considering 99.9% of the scientific community takes my stance I think one should only dismiss it with serious evidence. There is no serious evidence. There are courses on David Beckham here, that is how meaningless a course can be. Just because there is a course in something doesn't bring a shred of evidence for it being true. It should published in a journal and reviewed by scientific peers.

For goodness sake, you have creationism being taught in your biology classes, with NO evidence for it. Why would it be such a stretch to have professors teaching nonsense in courses? It doesn't mean that it has credibility, it just means that american education is in a crisis.

I should also remind you and boom that nothing i typed has been refuted as of yet. Why does this pattern emerge every time this debate comes up? I present evidence after evidence and numerous upset christians show up, angrily insulting me and providing no counter-evidence whatsoever. Infact, their plain ignorance of science only validates my opinions.[/b]

I don't know alot, about science or religion, but what I do know is that Christianity is based on one big thing called Faith. Before I go any farther I want to say that I am not a Christian. But, to be a Christain from what I'm told, you need faith. Faith -- belief that is not based on proof. If God would want someone to be his follower, they need faith. There is no real "evidence" that God is real, that wouldn't make any sense to me if we had proof that God was real. That would mean the bible would, in a way, contradict its self wouldn't it? If the Bible says you should have faith, then in turn there could be no proof of a God. If we had proof, then really, no one could ever have faith KNOWING there IS a God.
It sounds to me that you lack faith, reason being is ignorance as all humans are guilty of in some form. You don't have faith because you've taken a few science classes, and you have learned a few things.
Although you are correct, nothing you have stated has been refuted by anyone here. But, a statement like "Why does this pattern emerge every time this debate comes up? I present evidence after evidence and numerous upset christians show up, angrily insulting me and providing no counter-evidence whatsoever." and I disagree. I have read most of this thread and I don't see anyone angrey. I could be wrong of course. But as I stated before, asking for evidence is the same as asking to disprove the religion. It has not been proven, or disproven that Christianity is no more than a myth.

I'd like to restate that I'm not a Christian and I could be totally wrong about what I posted. This is just from my observations. Please don't take this personal in any form. I actually like discussing this topics my self cause I can learn alot. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I like being proven wrong in some forms. This helps me learn.

**0000000** · 04-06-2008, 09:07 PM

God is like your parents. If i talk shit about your mother, would you be upset?[/b]

Your parents definitely exist and definitely have feelings, the same can't be said for a deity. A better anology is to compare God with an invisible friend. The child fully believes the friend exists, and there is no way to prove that it doesn't. He will get upset if you tell him it doesn't. The difficulty for the parent is to help the child without causing undue distress. The child is unwilling to let go of his friend even if it is in his best interests. This analogy is quite common in psychology apparently.