Rogues =(

[Fag]

Tnx, but im not a ko fan, only thing that made ko pvp fun was slideable movment. Rest just sux.
Anyways, i do like the arena and all this. But no sieges, no open pvp is a big boredom element for me. In l2, the closest thing to arena thing is olympiad atm. Its a selfbuff 1v1 contest. Either between same classes or cross class, depends how many ppl will come. But only nobles can join, whoever gets more points from each class gets to be a hero. But i cant wait to see the underground arena thing l2 gets.

But still, i was just wondering whats the real that element wow has. In l2 its all about pk. Ur nothing unless uv made a name in pking. Beeing called a farmer is an insult. In wow i THINK its not like that, ofc iv heard about the tournaments and stuff but it isnt a pk game, it just allows it. Its just not my thing to rollplay around in LSD world and doing some occasional pk :P[/b]

In the new expansion - wotlk, there will be castle sieges... So that's the reason i stopped playing wow for a while, waiting for it...

[PADDY]

well the patch came, the rogue normalisation came and guess what, they are still very powerful in pvp... no no tears i hope

[0000000]

rogues are mid tier in 2v2, high tier in 3v3 and dead last in 5v5 (the bracket used for balance). The only bracket rogues were strong in was 3v3, and you will see the remaining rogue teams lose rating to warrior/druid/hunter/warlock teams in the next few weeks. The fact remains, 5v5 is how the game is balanced and since rogues are the least represented, they deserve the most buffs. Shadowstep is a pathetic build and if blizzard expect all rogues to use it then they are effectively killing off rogues for good in 5v5.

[PADDY]

Hunter rogue mage druid paladin is an awesomely powerful 5v5
rogue mage druid/priest is as powerful as any team
rogue mage for 2v2's

and look around you, 90% of the vengeful weapons you will find on rogues are dual daggers... wonder why? Oh right yeah mutilate is the new prep AR due to the ambush buff

[FatM4n]

rogues are mid tier in 2v2, high tier in 3v3 and dead last in 5v5 (the bracket used for balance). The only bracket rogues were strong in was 3v3, and you will see the remaining rogue teams lose rating to warrior/druid/hunter/warlock teams in the next few weeks. The fact remains, 5v5 is how the game is balanced and since rogues are the least represented, they deserve the most buffs. Shadowstep is a pathetic build and if blizzard expect all rogues to use it then they are effectively killing off rogues for good in 5v5.[/b]

Hunter+Druid are really nasty in 2v2 and in 5v5 Hunter,Lock,Priest,Pala and warrior aka drain teams, other then that Hunters ain that great in burst teams.

But the rouge nerf/whatever you wanna call it. It's all about how blizzards definition of preperation is. Maybe they wanted it to jusr clear cd in sub tree or clear all cd.
We never know what goes in their minds

[@FT3R5H()CK]

To the people that responded to my earlier posts. No zero didn't say AR/Prep was the STRONGEST spec, someone else did and I didn't catch it for that I apologize. I never said don't use cool-downs, I am saying a good rogue doesn't need to rely on every cool-down to win a fight. If you need every cool-down for a fight what good are you? That is why AR/Prep was a very poor build in my eyes, Any shit rogue can blow all their cool-downs and win a fight. But how many can kill without using their cool-downs and use them when they are really needed? You speak very highly of arenas zero, I am wondering is it because it resets every cool-down you have? You say you run BG's with a healer, why is that? Are you unable to survive without a healer because you wont be any good every 5 minutes? You say shadow step is a shitty build. Why is that? It isn't just going in blowing all your cool downs swinging your weapons and winning. It actually takes a little bit of skill and knowing what to do and when to do it.

P.S don't let your ego blow up saying you have accomplished so much. How much experience have you had before the expansion came out? By the way you talk it sounds like none, anyways good luck and have fun. Remember its just a game don't get mad.

[b1gshow]

Hunter rogue mage druid paladin is an awesomely powerful 5v5
rogue mage druid/priest is as powerful as any team
rogue mage for 2v2's

and look around you, 90% of the vengeful weapons you will find on rogues are dual daggers... wonder why? Oh right yeah mutilate is the new prep AR due to the ambush buff[/b]

Seriously paddy give me what u smoke becausr your alucinating all over the place.

The ambush buff is a joke noone uses it expect on green geared nabs that do bg's.
How is mutilate the new AR/PREP, u still can't get double cd's so your mobility is lacking in all ways, for the specc to be played to it's fullest u need a dispeller if u don't have one your fucked by the amount of snares/CC taking into consideration u would be 41/0/20 which would mean u wouldn't have imp sprint.

All in all we don't have OUR pvp spec because of little bitches crying all over the place that they were getting rolled by AR/PREP rogues in duels and in arenas, it's just time to face it those guys got outplayed and most certainly outgeared.

[PADDY]

haven't had any issue in pvp with my rogue since the patch

[b1gshow]

haven't had any issue in pvp with my rogue since the patch[/b]

First define your pvp.

Second bg's don't actually count towards what real pvp actually is.

[0000000]

Hunter rogue mage druid paladin is an awesomely powerful 5v5
rogue mage druid/priest is as powerful as any team
rogue mage for 2v2's

and look around you, 90% of the vengeful weapons you will find on rogues are dual daggers... wonder why? Oh right yeah mutilate is the new prep AR due to the ambush buff[/b]

I don't know if you are joking or being serious, thats how dumb the things you type are.

hunter rogue mage druid paladin is an AWFUL 5v5. I'll explain why because you are too dim to figure it out. No offensive dispel = fail first of all. Druids fail in 5v5, replace him with a shaman. A rogue in a 3dps team with only 1 magic dps is fail because frost trap > rogues. Have fun getting kited all day with that team. If you replaced the rogue with a warrior, and the druid with a shaman then you have a good team.

If i look around me, 90% of vengeful weapons are maces. Any rogue who is half decent got the maces in the first few days of s3. Some got swords but very few opted for daggers. Mutilate is the spec of choice for 5v5 but hardly any rogues play 5v5 in the first place... Only 3% of top 5v5 teams consists of rogues. Most 2v2 and 3v3 rogues are shadowstep or AR/prep, because playing without preparation in those brackets is a huge disability.

Then theres the "ambush buff". I should explain to you that ambush sucks. Ambush is never a good opener, especially for mutilate. If you are mutilate/ambush then you have ONE snare breaker which is vanish. Are you going to vanish just to do a pathetic 2k ambush? Of course not. Ambush is a total waste of time and hits for less than a crit mutilate. Do you open on people with ambush? Yeah that 2k damage will really scare people. You will just get kited after the ambush and the damage will be healed up. CS and garrote are the only viable openers.

Rogue/mage is decent in 2v2, but not top tier. Rogue/priest gets owned by druid/anything. The only good rogue 2v2 setup is with an SLSL warlock, which is overpowered with any partner. Like i said, 3v3 is the only bracket rogues are top tier in (same with mages). And now after the huge nerfs (AR, hemo and deadly throw), I don't see RMP as being stronger than druid/warrior/X anymore in 3v3. Even with buffed rogues, it was 50/50. Warriors, priests and warlocks are top tier in THREE brackets and that is ok, but rogues being strong in 3v3 is not. That is basically the stupid logic I am hearing.

[PADDY]

all i'm saying is 90% of the 1850 or above rogues i find are walking around with the dual 1.80 speed daggers, reason for that? Mutilate ofc, and what got buffed with that spec? Only ambush.

Myself i am Hemmo/SS and enjoy it immensely but anyway, you guys complaining about how underpowered rogues are must be better than the guys that have no issues that i play along side

[0000000]

To the people that responded to my earlier posts. No zero didn't say AR/Prep was the STRONGEST spec, someone else did and I didn't catch it for that I apologize. I never said don't use cool-downs, I am saying a good rogue doesn't need to rely on every cool-down to win a fight. If you need every cool-down for a fight what good are you? That is why AR/Prep was a very poor build in my eyes, Any shit rogue can blow all their cool-downs and win a fight. But how many can kill without using their cool-downs and use them when they are really needed? You speak very highly of arenas zero, I am wondering is it because it resets every cool-down you have? You say you run BG's with a healer, why is that? Are you unable to survive without a healer because you wont be any good every 5 minutes? You say shadow step is a shitty build. Why is that? It isn't just going in blowing all your cool downs swinging your weapons and winning. It actually takes a little bit of skill and knowing what to do and when to do it.

P.S don't let your ego blow up saying you have accomplished so much. How much experience have you had before the expansion came out? By the way you talk it sounds like none, anyways good luck and have fun. Remember its just a game don't get mad.[/b]

WoW before TBC was a joke. I don't care about raiding, it is for retards and honestly i am wasted on PvE content. I could let my mum raid on my character after 2 mins explaining what to do. I speak highly of arena because the only competition is in arena. I usually run BG's solo, it is too easy to beat people 2v1 or 3v1 in battlegrounds. While that is sometimes fun, it isn't satisfying because those opponents are trash. You don't need cooldowns in bg's, people are that bad. You can just run around with slice and dice up and kill people who are getting heals because they have 20 resilience or something.

Like paddy, i dont think you have ever fought top pvpers. Rogues need a lot of cooldowns to kill top players. Even warlock teams are extremely hard to kill without a lot of cooldowns. But how would you understand? There is a huge difference between bg's and arena. I kill warlocks in bg's in maybe 4 hemos. In arena it can take 5 or 6 minutes. You are just like the people on the official forum who base their opinion of rogues on battlegrounds. "oooh AR/prep is overpowered because they kill me in 5 seconds with double AR". The first error people make is they assume you just spam cooldowns, prep, then spam then again. They think rogues do 30 secs of non-stop AR. This is a load of crap. You need the first load of cooldowns just to force their team to use trinkets. And you use the 2nd set later to finish the job.

You will never understand my position unless you start fighting the top teams in a bracket. When i was AR/prep, resto druids were able to tank my damage through both AR's in caster form, and i had ~1800AP unbuffed. So you can imagine how futile it is to kill healers as shadowstep. I am totally reliant on a mage to help me. They would just laugh at you.

[0000000]

all i'm saying is 90% of the 1850 or above rogues i find are walking around with the dual 1.80 speed daggers, reason for that? Mutilate ofc, and what got buffed with that spec? Only ambush.

Myself i am Hemmo/SS and enjoy it immensely but anyway, you guys complaining about how underpowered rogues are must be better than the guys that have no issues that i play along side [/b]

SK100 shows shadowstep as 40% and mutilate as 8% for 3v3, go figure. The rest are ar/prep and combat. And you other statement is a matter of perspective. Someone can be perfectly happy playing at 1600 or something, content with losing and happy with their spec. Thats ok but just because someone is happy doesn't mean rogues aren't underpowered. Rogues are the bottom class in 5v5 by miles, you just can't join a top team as a rogue. I can walk into any top 3v3 team on my server but i have to play with noobs in 5v5 because no one wants rogues.

And for the last time, ambush has no place in a mutilate spec.

[PADDY]

the rogues i play with in my guild are between 1900 and 2100 in 2v2/3v3 and ours is a particularly hard battlegroup. Most of our guys spec shadowstep 20/0/41, but the successful 5v5 rogues i have seen have been mutilate.

Stick a rogue on any healer other than a paladin and you have taken 1 of their members out of the game completely

[b1gshow]

the rogues i play with in my guild are between 1900 and 2100 in 2v2/3v3 and ours is a particularly hard battlegroup. Most of our guys spec shadowstep 20/0/41, but the successful 5v5 rogues i have seen have been mutilate.

Stick a rogue on any healer other than a paladin and you have taken 1 of their members out of the game completely[/b]

How can the battlegroup be hard when your rogue's have those ratings running with that lolspec, in the best scenario it should be 0/20/41 for dual wield spec imp and imp gouge other that the other variants are crappy.

Arenas are not 1v1 the rogue won't stay on the healer forever and ever.