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Scam cases

This is a discussion on Scam cases within the General Chat forums, part of the Knight Online (ko4life.com) category; Eventho the middleman approach sounds like the best idea, this just makes the middleman a target for scamming a ton ...
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  1. #46
    h4x0r Admin Devile's Avatar
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    Eventho the middleman approach sounds like the best idea, this just makes the middleman a target for scamming a ton of money. Asuming we are able to find very trustable users, which is not something easy, we can't take care of each middleman's security. MSN, forum account, PC, etc. Eventually someone gets hacked and a lot of money gets scammed.

    I really dont see how this is gonna work, seeing a lot of ppl getting hacked and not knowing how it happened. If this eventually happens, it needs multiple validations and locks so there's no chance someone uses a middleman to fuck a trade.

  2. #47
    Tits or destiny? Senior Member Dark3lf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devile View Post
    Eventho the middleman approach sounds like the best idea, this just makes the middleman a target for scamming a ton of money. Asuming we are able to find very trustable users, which is not something easy, we can't take care of each middleman's security. MSN, forum account, PC, etc. Eventually someone gets hacked and a lot of money gets scammed.

    I really dont see how this is gonna work, seeing a lot of ppl getting hacked and not knowing how it happened. If this eventually happens, it needs multiple validations and locks so there's no chance someone uses a middleman to fuck a trade.
    I understand your point but this is why getting the middleman status wouldn't be easy. They would have to have some knowledge of computers and programs and yadda yadda. Someone with knowledge and skills to break into someone's forum and/or msn account wouldn't bother with it as they'd probably have better and easier ways to get money. The only way someone gets "hacked" is some sort of keylogger which they've gotten from a file sent by someone on msn or clicking fishy links. This is why the middleman should be someone who's paranoid enough to not do anything stupid x)
    It's just a suggestion though, I honestly don't really give a flying cameltoe about pixel trades these days but it's kinda interesting to see what happens.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark3lf View Post
    I understand your point but this is why getting the middleman status wouldn't be easy. They would have to have some knowledge of computers and programs and yadda yadda. Someone with knowledge and skills to break into someone's forum and/or msn account wouldn't bother with it as they'd probably have better and easier ways to get money. The only way someone gets "hacked" is some sort of keylogger which they've gotten from a file sent by someone on msn or clicking fishy links. This is why the middleman should be someone who's paranoid enough to not do anything stupid x)
    It's just a suggestion though, I honestly don't really give a flying cameltoe about pixel trades these days but it's kinda interesting to see what happens.
    This is not neccessarily true.
    Forum can get hacked, let's be honest, vbulletin had a bunch of critical exploits in the past. Last one was just a few months ago. The $_POST sql injection, in groups.php I believe.
    Same password used in different locations.
    Easy/guessable password.
    Spoofing.
    And sharing account w/ relatives or even friends ( not hacking but yea.. )
    Just a few examples...

    And then again, who says who's trustable?
    Most recent example WIFI, scammed like 2 grand off of different people after a bazillion legit trades.
    It happens all the time. The biggest problem here is that the more the item is worth the bigger is the chance that the middleman may run off with the item or money or even both.
    Then the question is, how much does the middleman get? Cuz let's be honest, being a middleman can be very timeconsuming considering that one of the parties may back off or has some trouble with the payment or something. Not many people will do it for free.

    But if I were to nominate one I'd definitely say Darken. Most trustable user on here imo. I sold him shit worth easily 5000$ and I always went first. He also middleman'd a trade for me before.

  4. #49
    Tits or destiny? Senior Member Dark3lf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRapist View Post
    This is not neccessarily true.
    Forum can get hacked, let's be honest, vbulletin had a bunch of critical exploits in the past. Last one was just a few months ago. The $_POST sql injection, in groups.php I believe.
    Same password used in different locations.
    Easy/guessable password.
    Spoofing.
    And sharing account w/ relatives or even friends ( not hacking but yea.. )
    Just a few examples...

    And then again, who says who's trustable?
    Most recent example WIFI, scammed like 2 grand off of different people after a bazillion legit trades.
    It happens all the time. The biggest problem here is that the more the item is worth the bigger is the chance that the middleman may run off with the item or money or even both.
    Then the question is, how much does the middleman get? Cuz let's be honest, being a middleman can be very timeconsuming considering that one of the parties may back off or has some trouble with the payment or something. Not many people will do it for free.
    Except for the forum hacking all of the examples you gave can be avoided if you use your head. That's why I said "the middleman should be someone who's paranoid enough to not do anything stupid" which includes what you just mentioned.

    And who's trustable? That's for admins and you mods to decide. Do a background check and all that crap. I know it's really easy to be dishonest on the internet because you most likely don't have to pay for the consequences but there are honest people as well.
    What would the middlemen get? I did mention they should get a few bucks or some solid percentage of the amount that's being transferred on real money trades. If it's just an ingame/account trade they should be compensated in ingame cash or items. I'm sure people would be willing to pay a little for safe deals.
    I mean let's look at you forum mods and admins. You babysit us for free and I don't see you complaining. The trade mods would get paid for what they're doing so it would definitely reduce the temptation of turning into a scammer.

    Tbh if you have any better ideas I'd love to hear them. There's really no way to make trades secure when dealing with virtual items. One way would be to complete ban real money/account trades but that would have a huge impact on the market section.

  5. #50
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    I wasn't trying to turn your idea down Dark3lf. Infact I actually like the idea but commonsense is not so common and it's quite hard to determine if someone is trustable from a few forum posts.
    You might now many of us don't even play ko anymore. I think pendexo and legendz are the only ones atm so a background check is kinda hard.

    Banning money/acc trades is a nogo imo. Tbh that's the only thing that keeps k4l alive :/

  6. #51
    Tits or destiny? Senior Member Dark3lf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrRapist View Post
    I wasn't trying to turn your idea down Dark3lf. Infact I actually like the idea but commonsense is not so common and it's quite hard to determine if someone is trustable from a few forum posts.
    You might now many of us don't even play ko anymore. I think pendexo and legendz are the only ones atm so a background check is kinda hard.

    Banning money/acc trades is a nogo imo. Tbh that's the only thing that keeps k4l alive :/
    Oh don't get me wrong. I never implied that you wanted to turn it down or anything.
    You're saying it's hard to find trustable people with common sense but if no one bothers even trying nothing will ever get done.
    You already 'nominated' one person, that is a good start in my opinion. I don't think you should be worried about being biased when choosing middlemen. You should definitely choose people you already know personally, that way you can get things rolling.
    If the middleman doesn't even play KO that's even better. It's easy to just install KO and log in to do trades. The temptation to steal items should be pretty much non-existent.
    You can probably see a flaw in that if they get paid in ingame items but they could just sell them in market section themselves. Being a trustable person I doubt it'd take long for anything to sell.

  7. #52
    Ayylmao Senior Member Vice's Avatar
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    So basically this is what I tried to get to happen earlier:



    Seeing how there's only a total of 6 scam reports in the last 13 months I'd say it's working out quite okay for these people

  8. #53
    Cano Senior Member Canofwhopass's Avatar
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    maybe bring back the Vouchers section in the forum that could possible reduce the amount of scams going on, make it maybe 50+ posts to post in that section. Second suggestion maybe add 2 or 3 middle man per-server.maybe asking to much with the middle man but i think it would help some.

  9. #54
    Just do it Senior Member thing's Avatar
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    Middlemen are the best solution, if any imo.


    @Devile
    If someone who qualified to be a middleman wanted to scam, they could do it whether or not they were a middleman or not...

    Plus, most people know that you make more in the long run than you could from any one scam.

    Last edited by thing; 04-02-2012 at 11:43 PM.

  10. #55
    Cano Senior Member Canofwhopass's Avatar
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    Gotta pick your most trusted KO4life members for middlemen.

  11. #56
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    Danny was extremly trusted but kept getting his msn hacked and stuff. While sure, MM do help, just a voucher system would be more then enough.

  12. #57
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    People would be afraid to vouch for other people, because if they do end up scamming how would that look on the person vouching. Most of the "big" scammers on this forum have had lists upon lists of vouchers and that didnt stop them.

  13. #58
    Senior Member Prince's Avatar
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    agree with that..

  14. #59
    Just do it Senior Member thing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    agree with that..
    What exactly are you agreeing with?

  15. #60
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    Don't trust anyone and don't do trades - that's the right approach!
    On a serious note, pretty much all the methods failed on this forum because people are way too greedy and competitive when it comes to KO and because the mods don't act in time and let scammers roam for a few weeks after they were first reported.
    IMO, even when someone is reported without proof he should be banned from trading for like a month or so until proof is provided. if none is provided within a month, the reported guy can go back to trading.
    I know this is easily exploitable and will cause alot of fuss because honest traders will sometimes get banned from trading for a month, but it's worth it.

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