Ayman4u - religious discussion

[Eric]

Originally posted by TunaFishyMe
calling something a proof doesnt make it a proof...
science "explains" the whys from the observation of the scientist. *Thats it. *It doesnt prove anything.

so you're disputing scientific research altogether? Wow... I actually thought you at least some shred of intelligence. I can't believe you actually just said that.

It is proven through many ways that the earth is older than a few thousands years, rather it is billions of years old.

[Vacant]

Originally posted by Eric+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-TunaFishyMe

calling something a proof doesnt make it a proof...
science "explains" the whys from the observation of the scientist. *Thats it. *It doesnt prove anything.

It is proven through many ways that the earth is older than a few thousands years, rather it is billions of years old.[/b]

show it. carbon dating has also been "proven" to be inacurate, I am actually curious to see what other evidence is out there sense your also going by faith sense you have not witnessed this yourself. Human nature is to make mistakes, we are not perfect so unless you are actually billions of years old, I don't see what can show me thats true. Please though don't point me to a book.

[Goathorns]

Originally posted by Vacant+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vacant)</div>

Originally posted by Eric@
<!--QuoteBegin-TunaFishyMe

calling something a proof doesnt make it a proof...
science "explains" the whys from the observation of the scientist. *Thats it. *It doesnt prove anything.

It is proven through many ways that the earth is older than a few thousands years, rather it is billions of years old.

show it. carbon dating has also been "proven" to be inacurate, I am actually curious to see what other evidence is out there sense your also going by faith sense you have not witnessed this yourself. Human nature is to make mistakes, we are not perfect so unless you are actually billions of years old, I don't see what can show me thats true. Please though don't point me to a book. [/b]

Fossil fuels take a very long time to be made, also the evolution of animals take a few hundred thousand years. Havent you heard about the pre-historic trees they found in australia? Trees as old as dinosaurs, now that's wicked nature power at work.

Consider carbon dating to be as accurate as a thermometer. You trust that with your life dont you? There is still a % of time it can be wrong. Also most of the "proofs" i have seen that support the inaccuracy of carbon dating is from very biased studies only made to satisfy an agenda. Putting it in another way, I wouldnt trust much a Manifesto on Racial Equality and Pro-Minority Rights by the KKK. :lol:

[Babek]

Originally posted by Vacant+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vacant)</div>

Originally posted by Eric@
<!--QuoteBegin-TunaFishyMe

calling something a proof doesnt make it a proof...
science "explains" the whys from the observation of the scientist. *Thats it. *It doesnt prove anything.

It is proven through many ways that the earth is older than a few thousands years, rather it is billions of years old.

show it. carbon dating has also been "proven" to be inacurate, I am actually curious to see what other evidence is out there sense your also going by faith sense you have not witnessed this yourself. Human nature is to make mistakes, we are not perfect so unless you are actually billions of years old, I don't see what can show me thats true. Please though don't point me to a book. [/b]

That's why they don't use carbon dating,it can only be used on things less than 50k years old and before the 1900(if you wan't a +90% result), there's other ways to establish the age of planet earth (isochron dating for example).

Eric, here's a interview with Dawkins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfnDdMRxMHY

For atheists I'd like to recomend Gisburne2000's little films on youtube, they're fun and entertaining
"Don't use the Bible to prove that the Bible is true": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_Nm0YRDA2k
"What Christianity or ANY religion sounds like to an atheist": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl5dCFuG8fs

[tolgahan]

nobody cant be ignorant about beliefs if he/she doesnt talk about others religion.
i see that.Gods rules are hard to obey for u n u r tring to find a hole to leave there.allways asking proofs. if u want to believe u will believe.
to me . asking proofs is runing away. i am not saying u cant ask but When all these things are clear still asking it is for running away.
thats what i see. u cant judge me or call me ignorant.its the same as u talk about turks.This was a CRITICISM about u n others. Cant i CRITICIZE ?

[Zaria]

Originally posted by camaz0tz

what makes u think that "God" gives 2 shits about ur prayers? or about ur religion? or the fact u believe in him? do u think he cares if u get the whole world to believe ur ideal about him? do u think he REALLY truely cares if u insult him...rofl that some omniscient being so all powerful and eternal cares so much if u insult him?

Honestly tell me this. Lets say you were religious, and you had tragedy in your life and you prayed about it. Lets say your prayer request was fullfilled. Would you believe then?

[Zaria]

Originally posted by h3h3h3

The truth is that there's no evidence for the existence of a god, only evidence against it. And if we shun people who believe in ghosts or fairies for the same reason, then we should regard religion as the same. I have no problem with adults believing whatever they want, but when they teach kids about nonsense like Hell etc, i think the nightmares and real mental damage to some kids is tantamount to child abuse. This is why i hate religious indoctrination and hate anyone who supports it. *

Please remember what you just said, and when you have children, don't read any fairies tales to them. They will have too many nightmares. Oh and don't introduce them to Halloween.

[DragonFire]

I'm pretty sure I've never had a nightmare about hell.. :huh:

[camaz0tz]

Originally posted by Zaria+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zaria)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-camaz0tz

what makes u think that "God" gives 2 shits about ur prayers? or about ur religion? or the fact u believe in him? do u think he cares if u get the whole world to believe ur ideal about him? do u think he REALLY truely cares if u insult him...rofl that some omniscient being so all powerful and eternal cares so much if u insult him?

Honestly tell me this. Lets say you were religious, and you had tragedy in your life and you prayed about it. Lets say your prayer request was fullfilled. Would you believe then?[/b]

when people pray they pray in general terms...take ur example and say lets sum1 was in a bad car accident..."please god allow jim to be ok and survive this"...very broad dont u agree?...anyway back to ur example lets say he survives...no i wouldnt believe...id thank modern medical science thats for damn sure

anyway u took what i said and ocne again changed it into a doubt about god...please re-read it and see that i do believe in a higher being but just dont believe that he interacts in our daily life, responds to prayers, cares in any way what we do

[Eric]

Originally posted by tolgahan
nobody cant be ignorant about beliefs if he/she doesnt talk about others religion.
i see that.Gods rules are hard to obey for u n u r tring to find a hole to leave there.allways asking proofs. if u want to believe u will believe.
to me . asking proofs is runing away. i am not saying u cant ask but When all these things are clear still asking it *is for running away.
thats what i see. u cant judge me or call me ignorant.its the same as u talk about turks.This was a CRITICISM about u n others. Cant i CRITICIZE ?

So close to just banning you considering you already should be banned and all you do is spout off retarded shit and make idiotic assumptions. Fabricating a religion is running away from the reality of truth, I am not running away I am looking for the truth rather than following like a sheep. Also, I would appreciate it if you directed me to a post where I bashed turks.

[TunaFishyMe]

Originally posted by Eric+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Eric)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-TunaFishyMe

calling something a proof doesnt make it a proof...
science "explains" the whys from the observation of the scientist. *Thats it. *It doesnt prove anything.

so you're disputing scientific research altogether? Wow... I actually thought you at least some shred of intelligence. I can't believe you actually just said that.

It is proven through many ways that the earth is older than a few thousands years, rather it is billions of years old.[/b]

no, i am not disputing scientific research. I just wonder why people find the belief in a god is stubborn or an excuse to explain the unknown when "science" is pretty much the same thing. Yes, science makes us feel like we understand what is happening. It uses 'logic', which our brains accept. Thus we think it is the absolutely truth? Sure, religion doesnt provide the same kind of "proof" science does, but the end result is the result is the same. It provides people with some answer to the unknown. So whats the difference between the two?

If you stop trying to think about reason and stop trying to draw the line between right and wrong, you will be surprised how much more you can actually see.

000 was tramatized by the boogie monster lol

[Eric]

There is a HUGE difference between the two, one is living a lie, and the other is seeking the truth.

[tolgahan]

Ha Ha. i am really wondering what u wd say if u werent a mod.if i deserve to be banned , i wd be banned.i know who r still unbanned even their words.PPl said u sux at mod. i thought u arent. now i see that u prefer banning ppl instead of wasting time by saying something. except jokes i dont think i am spouting anything off.I never started a " flame " or something like it.Sometimes i argued something with other ppl other times i was tring to have fun like others do.i think u should learn what is mod 's justice. we have to believe it here.or i am waiting for other mods to ask me leave here too before i get banned if i deserve it.
anyway if we go back to topic
i was born in a muslim country.My family never forced me to believe something but from the beginning u start to learn what is allah. at scholl teachers teach u what is religion.this is not following others like sheeps.They showed me . i thought about it if these can be possible.( sure all these are in years not a lesson time). if i dont think these can be possible i dont believe in god. its that much simple.Nobody forced me believe in god n muhammed.They showed me the way.I didnt accept other ways.Now i am following it not like sheeps...
i didnt mean u bashed anything. i said it was a criticism n mine is too like urs.u said u dont run away so its closed now.thats all.u dont have to look for another meaning in my words.if i want to say or mean i write it.if u cant understand well i think its coz of my bad english.u can ask it before u start to bomb.
btw if u still think mods ban me pls ask them to tell it to me.i wont stay here even a sec.
coz of stupid proxy it show a \ before this one (")

[Futile Rhetoric]

There is currently no theory which would explain why there is something instead of nothing. Such a theory cannot be based on science, because it would not be based on observable reality. You cannot see which colour a balloon has on the outside, while being inside said balloon. Reality is the balloon; its outer colour is its meaning. You can explore every single part of that balloon, but you won't find its colour. You can of course stipulate that the balloon has no outer colour, or that the balloon's inner colour is the same as its outer colour, and that there is nothing outside of the balloon -- these are certainly valid points of view. But this view cannot be proven while you're inside the balloon, just like the actual colour it has on the outside.

That's quite a poor example.. But I never insinuated that there is a theory to explain 'something instead of nothing'. Dno where the hell u got that from.[/quote]
The metaphor works rather well. The reason why I brought up explaining why there's existence at all, is because that is an area that science can say absolutely nothing about.

You may not know, but there are some theories that certain rules in maths are wrong. For example 1 x 1= 1, but -1 x -1= -2.. but logically it should be 1.

Theories, eh. Sounds like someone has absolutely no understanding of math. Here's a quick and dirty proof that -1*-1 = 1:

(-1) * (-1) =
(-1) * (-1) + 2 + (-2) =
(-1) * (-1) + 2 + (-1) * 2 =
(-1) * (-1 + 2) + 2 =
(-1) * 1 + 2 =
(-1) + 2 = 1

Any other "theories" you'd like to share? Is there any mathematical proof that -1 * -1 should be -1? You know, other than "OMG LIEK NEGATIEV TIEMS NEGATIEV MUST BE NEGATIEV HURHURHUR", 'cause that doesn't say all that much. Proof or GTFO.

It may/ may not be religious, but it's just my logic. Everything has a reason, and can be explained through science and logic.

You make tons of unfounded assumptions, but hey. Suffices to say that any reason for existence will not be found within existence, and therefore will not be found through science. You must either accept the idea that there is no reason for it (i.e. it just is, much like God in every religion), or that you will never know, science or not.

I wasnt trying to be scientific, I was being idologic. I'm talking in general on this part (as u didnt notice looking at your grammer). Those sort of views are built on reality because it's been done before. It obviously just goes against your logic, which I'd say isnt very scientific.

There's no such thing as "your logic" or "my logic", logic is logic is logic. The difference is that you make unjustified assumptions while claiming to espouse science, while I do not.

It contains assumptions because it is my belief. Just because it isnt provable yet (yes this is idologic and realitive) doesn't mean it can't be true. All theories are based on assumptions.

That's borderline religious. If you're going to embrace science, argue science, then you best stay in the realm of science. If you choose not to, if you choose to employ your own fantasies, then please don't speak out against religious belief. Thanks.

If your going to discriminate my theory for what it is, you might aswell do it to every theory ever made.

Theory? As in, a scientific theory, right? They're usually based on actual science. Yours isn't.

[camaz0tz]

Originally posted by TunaFishyMe+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TunaFishyMe)</div>

Originally posted by Eric@
<!--QuoteBegin-TunaFishyMe

calling something a proof doesnt make it a proof...
science "explains" the whys from the observation of the scientist. *Thats it. *It doesnt prove anything.

so you're disputing scientific research altogether? Wow... I actually thought you at least some shred of intelligence. I can't believe you actually just said that.

It is proven through many ways that the earth is older than a few thousands years, rather it is billions of years old.

no, i am not disputing scientific research. I just wonder why people find the belief in a god is stubborn or an excuse to explain the unknown when "science" is pretty much the same thing. Yes, science makes us feel like we understand what is happening. It uses 'logic', which our brains accept. Thus we think it is the absolutely truth? Sure, religion doesnt provide the same kind of "proof" science does, but the end result is the result is the same. It provides people with some answer to the unknown. So whats the difference between the two?

If you stop trying to think about reason and stop trying to draw the line between right and wrong, you will be surprised how much more you can actually see.

000 was tramatized by the boogie monster lol[/b]

math teacher i once had started off the semester by stating "why does 2+2=4?"...we spent like half the class discussing and arguing over why it meant 4...and no one got the answer although its very simple...people said well cuz if u count with ur figures by 2's u get 4...or if u count to 4 on ur fingers and take away 2 u get 2 so 2+2=4...plenty of answers along those lines...all rejected by our teacher which led to discussions about it with us trying to prove were right and hes just fucking with us.....

the answer to it was simply "because thats what were told"...theres no PROOF 2+2=4...its simply true because thats what were told...thats what sum1 made up and thats what every1 follows...the original person could have stated 1+1=4 and thats what wed follow to this day but he chose 2+2...the same applies to science...sum1 MADE UP all those things science follows so we follow those to "prove" things...the same applies to religion as well...sum1 made up the bible stories and people follow those to "prove" things

goes along the lines of explaining the same thing tuna just explained cept in a different way...a practical way since u adhere to ur science so much eric :P