Ayman4u - religious discussion

[camaz0tz]

Originally posted by lIIIIIIIIIIl
i always thought it was a peach or something... cause that man was probably filled with lust and decided he needed to cup a boob. n when he saw the peach that the mermaid(whatever it was) gave as a fruit-of-evil or some shit similar he thought to himself "i have to touch this one!"

but it was eve who ate it first h43r:

[Babek]

Originally posted by Vacant

I can just as easily switch those words with my own. What evidence can a book or documentary give?

As for starving childeren, no one can fully understand God.. thats my only explaination to you. God doesen't care about this physical life... it's only a short period. What is 6 years compaired to an eternity when they die?

Well a book and docs often shows examples and explains why, where and how, you can also get hints on where to look for the evidence yourself. In museums you can look at for example fossils and even touch em! Science have no claim to be 100% accurate(Nothing in the real world can be proved with absolute certainty). god on the other hand.....
Most fun is of course to do your own little experiments (here's a simple one everyone can try http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/CO2.htm)


Bring up dead kids and Whooop there it is "God works in mysterious ways".

God seemed to care alot about the "physical life" thousands of years ago, but now he's old and sleepy I guess.

[Babek]

Originally posted by lIIIIIIIIIIl
i always thought it was a peach or something... cause that man was probably filled with lust and decided he needed to cup a boob. n when he saw the peach that the mermaid(whatever it was) gave as a fruit-of-evil or some shit similar he thought to himself "i have to touch this one!"

Theologians actually think it was a banana(no joke)

[lIIIIIIIIIIl]

maybe there're 2 different fruits. or maybe there's a fruit which looks like its being fused out of a banana and 2 peaches. or a cucumber and 2 tomatoes. or a tube-shaped balloon tied together with 2 medium-sized normal round balloons. whatever.

[Vacant]

Originally posted by Babek+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babek)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Vacant

I can just as easily switch those words with my own. What evidence can a book or documentary give?

As for starving childeren, no one can fully understand God.. thats my only explaination to you. God doesen't care about this physical life... it's only a short period. What is 6 years compaired to an eternity when they die?

Bring up dead kids and Whooop there it is "God works in mysterious ways".

God seemed to care alot about the "physical life" thousands of years ago, but now he's old and sleepy I guess.[/b]

Yep there are some things we cant explain. But you know you can't blame everything bad on God... he didn't lock those kids up into a prison, we also have a responsability to take care of our own, not God. He didn't force those kids to starve, only created them. If you feel so angry about starving kids then you and all of us should be doing something to change that istead of blaming God.

Take 3rd world countries for example, yes they strugle and there are many childeren and others that suffer, but from the best of my knowledge that has come about because of previous decisions of their ancestors.

As for evidences, there are also some for the Bible. There are ancient manuscripts that you can see in museums.... you can go to the same places people from the Bible walked... you can visit where the temple used to be.. you can visit the red sea and so many other places and things just as you can anything else. The Bible is historically accurate. But as you said before, our religion is based on faith we have nothing to prove.

[TunaFishyMe]

Originally posted by Babek+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babek)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Vacant

I can just as easily switch those words with my own. What evidence can a book or documentary give?

As for starving childeren, no one can fully understand God.. thats my only explaination to you. God doesen't care about this physical life... it's only a short period. What is 6 years compaired to an eternity when they die?

Well a book and docs often shows examples and explains why, where and how, you can also get hints on where to look for the evidence yourself. In museums you can look at for example fossils and even touch em! Science have no claim to be 100% accurate(Nothing in the real world can be proved with absolute certainty). god on the other hand.....
Most fun is of course to do your own little experiments (here's a simple one everyone can try http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/CO2.htm)


Bring up dead kids and Whooop there it is "God works in mysterious ways".

God seemed to care alot about the "physical life" thousands of years ago, but now he's old and sleepy I guess.[/b]

You are explaining what you think you see but what makes you think your obersvations are correct? Have you heard of descartes theory of time, body, spiritual mind(something like that)

I dont remember exactly how it goes but if I remember correctly, he starts off with saying you have a clock and an alarm. Whenever the clock hits 12, you hear a ring. From your point of view, you see the clock ringing every hour so you assume that the clock is riniging every hour. But what happens if the sound you are hearing isnt coming from the clock but from a different source thats also timed to that hour?

Science sees the clock and hears the alarm and provides an explanation for it. They assume it is all linked together because of procedural thinking. Its "common sense" or "logical". But is it really describing what is really happening?? not at all.

Religion is a faith. We believe in it because we do. You all claim that believing in God is something men do because they are afraid or needs some sort of explanation for things "science" cant explain yet. How is that different than assuming the clock and the sound are related? It isnt. Its all in the eyes of the beholder. You believe what you want to believe.

[h3h3h3]

funnily enough i agree with a lot that futile says. Its a shame that he stops spouting nonsense after my main account is banned.

About creating something out of nothing: this is a concept which is oversimplified in common media and theology. Most uneducated religious people would consider the possibility of converting energy into matter to be synonymous even though it is part of the theory of relativity.

All the common arguments for the existence of god can be negated by any scientific reading. Often i find religious people use their ignorance as an excuse for belief, which was fine 100 years ago, but not anymore when we all go to schools.

The truth is that there's no evidence for the existence of a god, only evidence against it. And if we shun people who believe in ghosts or fairies for the same reason, then we should regard religion as the same. I have no problem with adults believing whatever they want, but when they teach kids about nonsense like Hell etc, i think the nightmares and real mental damage to some kids is tantamount to child abuse. This is why i hate religious indoctrination and hate anyone who supports it.

PADDY you can ban this account but i can keep making as many accounts as i like so its really quite futile. If you are too stupid to engage in serious discussion then that is your problem. If you worry more about protecting over-sensitive people rather than discussing the truth then that it also your problem. There are plenty of other forums around, but interestingly i have noticed a huge change in anti-religious sentiment on this forum while i have been here, so in that sense everything is worthwhile.

[Vacant]

Originally posted by h3h3h3
funnily enough i agree with a lot that futile says. Its a shame that he stops spouting nonsense after my main account is banned. *

About creating something out of nothing: this is a concept which is oversimplified in common media and theology. Most uneducated religious people would consider the possibility of converting energy into matter to be synonymous even though it is part of the theory of relativity.

All the common arguments for the existence of god can be negated by any scientific reading. Often i find religious people use their ignorance as an excuse for belief, which was fine 100 years ago, but not anymore when we all go to schools. *

The truth is that there's no evidence for the existence of a god, only evidence against it. And if we shun people who believe in ghosts or fairies for the same reason, then we should regard religion as the same. *
PADDY you can ban this account but i can keep making as many accounts as i like so its really quite futile. If you are too stupid to engage in serious discussion then that is your problem. If you worry more about protecting over-sensitive people rather than discussing the truth then that it also your problem. There are plenty of other forums around, but interestingly i have noticed a huge change in anti-religious sentiment on this forum while i have been here, so in that sense everything is worthwhile.

Who is shuning people that believe in ghosts or fairies? :lol:

I have no problem with adults believing whatever they want, but when they teach kids about nonsense like Hell etc, i think the nightmares and real mental damage to some kids is tantamount to child abuse. This is why i hate religious indoctrination and hate anyone who supports it.

This is another problem I have with the pathetic wimpy generation we live in today. What happened to the good days when their were people with backbones? Now we are afraid of our kids having nightmares? Zero, like I have said before it is useless for me to argue with you because your closed minded as always, but let me ask you one thing. What about telling childeren the "real world" (or so you put it)? You might as well start off by telling them their life in meaningless... after they die there is nothing and your life can be taken at any moment. There is no satan so there is no evil. To me thats would paint just as bad of a picture.

When I was agnostic my life seemed meaningless... it made me wonder why the hell there are rules set in this world because if there is no sin there would be chaos. Life is short so why not steal? Why not take someones life? Those are the questions I asked myself.

[TunaFishyMe]

i wish i could change the world by playing a video game and by posting on a online gaming forum of how much i hate religion too :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Ayman4u]

I have reviewed it and checked the spelling as much as i can, it took me long to gather the informations with the verses i know from the Holy Quran and in what chapter and its numbers, and some comments by arabic and some by english and translated the arabic to english by translator"prog" or translation that already exist from sites, i am not scholar or priest just want to let ppl see what i read b4 about soem facts, i like to read about science on human and nature and believes and things that has value any way here is my post and what i have gathered hope you read it .

God"Allah" by arabic supported His last Prophet Muhammad with many miracles and evidences that prove that he is a true Prophet sent by God. Also, God supported His last revealed book, the Holy Quran, with many miracles that prove that this Quran is the literal word of God, revealed by Him, and that it was not authored by any human being and what inside it confirm that ....the fact that a number of scientific truths that we have only been able to uncover by the technology of the 20th century were stated in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago. Of course the Qur'an is not a book of science. However, many scientific and nedical facts that are expressed in an extremely concise and profound manner in its verses have only been discovered with the technology of the 20th century. These facts could not have been known at the time of the Qur'an's revelation, and this is still more proof that the Qur'an is the word of God

and god said: " Will We show them Our Miracles in horizons, and within themselves, until it becomes quite clear to them that this is the Truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your God that He is witness over all things" fussilat (41,53)
there is mircales about Universe,Animals,Insects,Human,Plants,Medicine,Num eric,earth,water inside the Holy quran


this i have Quoted its about what is Quran :

The Quran is the literal word of God, which He revealed to His Prophet Muhammad *through the Angel Gabriel. *It was memorized by Muhammad , who then dictated it to his Companions. *They, in turn, memorized it, wrote it down, and reviewed it with the Prophet Muhammad . *Moreover, the Prophet Muhammad *reviewed the Quran with the Angel Gabriel once each year and twice in the last year of his life. *From the time the Quran was revealed, until this day, there has always been a huge number of Muslims who have memorized all of the Quran, letter by letter. *Some of them have even been able to memorize all of the Quran by the age of ten. *http://Not one letter of the Quran h... the centuries.

The Quran, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists. *This proves without doubt that the Quran must be the literal word of God, revealed by Him to the Prophet Muhammad , and that the Quran was not authored by Muhammad *or by any other human being. *This also proves that Muhammad *is truly a prophet sent by God. *It is beyond reason that anyone fourteen hundred years ago would have known these facts discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods. *Some examples follow

.

i will to mention some of them i have some books and articles i have collected before

about The Quran on Human Embryonic Development :


God said in verse
- (It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that (seed) which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator?) (The Qur'an Al-Wai'ah 56:57-59)

Also in other verses that god speaks in it about human embryonic deevlopment and descripe it and its so detailed that it is impossible for anyone living in the 7th century to have known them :

- ( Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled (without purpose)? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen? ) (The Qur'an Al-Qiyamah, 75:36-37)

and its Interestingly enough when you see semen is mentioned in the Qur'an, this fact, which was discovered by modern science .

- (He who has created all things in the best possible way. He commenced the creation of man from clay, then He made his progeny from an extract of discarded fluid.) (The Qur'an As*Sajdah, 32:7-8)

There is Arabic word in the verse called 'sulala'and its translated as 'extract', means the essential or best piece or part of something.it means "part of a whole". This shows that the Qur'an is the word of a Will that knows the creation of man down to its slightest detail ,this Will is God, the Creator of man.

- (He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected.) (The Qur'an An-Najm , 53:45-46)

In the Quran, it is said that males or females are created out of "a drop of semen which has been ejected"! andrecently, it was believed that a babies sex was determined by the mother's cells. Science only discovered this information given in the Quran in this century, andt his and many other simlar details about the creation of man were stated in the Quran centuries ago.
and u know a baby's sex is determined by which chromosome from the male unites with the female's ovum ,a babies sex is determined by which chromosome from the male unites with the female's ovum. In many cultures they believed that a babies sex was determined by the females body, that was the reason that women were blamed when they gave birth girls not boys /


- (We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)(Quran Al-Mu'minun , 23:12-14)

the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings: (leech,suspended thing, and blood clot.)
Quoted the explanation :

1 - Leech

Drawings illustrating the similarities in appearance between a leech and a human embryo at the alaqah stage. (Leech drawing from Human Development as Described in the Quran and Sunnah, Moore and others, p. 37, modified from Integrated Principles of Zoology, Hickman and others. *Embryo drawing from The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 73.)

2 - suspended thing "the suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother"

We can see in this diagram the suspension of an embryo during the alaqah stage in the womb (uterus) of the mother. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 66.) *

In this photomicrograph, we can see the suspension of an embryo (marked B ) during the alaqah stage (about 15 days old) in the womb of the mother. *The actual size of the embryo is about 0.6 mm. (The Developing Human, Moore, 3rd ed., p. 66, from Histology, Leeson and Leeson.)

3 - blood clot

We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. *This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage4 Also during this stage, the blood in the embryo does not circulate until the end of the third week. *Thus, the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.

Diagram of the primitive cardiovascular system in an embryo during the alaqah stage. *The external appearance of the embryo and its sacs is similar to that of a blood clot, due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo. (The Developing Human, Moore, 5th ed., p. 65.)

- The next stage mentioned in the verse is the mudghah stage. *The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.” *If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his or her mouth and then compare it with an embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that the embryo at the mudghah stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance. *This is because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance

Photograph of an embryo at the mudghah stage (28 days old). *The embryo at this stage acquires the appearance of a chewed substance, because the somites at the back of the embryo somewhat resemble teeth marks in a chewed substance. *The actual size of the embryo is 4 mm. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 82, from Professor Hideo Nishimura, Kyoto University, Kyoto, Japan.)

When comparing the appearance of an embryo at the mudghah stage with a piece of gum that has been chewed, we find similarity between the two.
A) Drawing of an embryo at the mudghah stage. *We can see here the somites at the back of the embryo that look like teeth marks. (The Developing Human, Moore and Persaud, 5th ed., p. 79.)

Embryology is the branch of science that studies the development of the embryo in the mother's womb. Until very recently, embryologists assumed that the bones and muscles in an embryo developed at the same time. For this reason, for a long time, some people claimed that these verses conflicted with science. Yet, advanced microscopic research conducted by virtue of new technological developments has revealed that the revelation of the Qur'an is word for word correct.

These observations at the microscopic level showed that the development inside the mother's womb takes place in just the way it is described in the verses. First, the cartilage tissue of the embryo ossifies. Then muscular cells that are selected from amongst the tissue around the bones come together and wrap around the bones.

(... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in a threefold darkness. That is God, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?) (The Qur'an Az-Zumar 39:6)

As will be understood, it is pointed out in this verse that a human being is created in the mother's womb in three distinct stages. Indeed, modern biology has revealed that the baby's embryological development takes place in three distinct regions in the mother's womb. Today, in all the embryology textbooks studied in faculties of medicine, this subject is taken as an element of basic knowledge. For instance in Basic Human Embryology, a fundamental reference text in the field of embryology, this fact is stated as follows: "The life in the uterus has three stages: pre-embryonic; first two and a half weeks, embryonic; until the end of the eight week, and fetal; from the eight week to labor." (1)

These phases refer to the different developmental stages of a baby. In brief, the main characteristics of these developmental stages are as follows:

- Pre-embryonic stage : *In this first phase, the zygote grows by division, and when it becomes a cell cluster, it buries itself in the wall of the uterus. While they continue growing, the cells organise themselves in three layers. *

- Embryonic Stage : The second phase lasts for five and a half weeks, during which the baby is called an "embryo". In this stage, the basic organs and systems of the body start to appear from the cell layers. *

- Fetal stage : From this stage on, the embryo is called a "foetus". This phase begins at the eighth week of gestation and lasts until the moment of birth. The distinctive characteristic of this stage is that the foetus looks just like a human being, with its face, hands and feet. Although it is only 3 cm. long initially, all of its organs have become apparent. This phase lasts for about 30 weeks, and development continues until the week of delivery. *



In the verse 6 of Sura Zumar, it is pointed out that man is created in the mother's womb in three distinct stages. Indeed, modern embryology has revealed that the baby's embryological development takes place in three distinct regions in the mother's womb.
*

Information on the development in the mother's womb became available only after observations with modern devices. Yet, just like many other scientific facts, these pieces of information are imparted in the verses of the Qur'an in a miraculous way. The fact that such detailed and accurate information was given in the Qur'an at a time when people had scarce information on medical matters is clear evidence that the Qur'an is not the word of man, but the word of God.

and now the scientest comments :

Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore8 is one of the world’s most prominent scientists in the fields of anatomy and embryology and is the author of the book entitled The Developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. *This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. *Dr. Keith Moore is Professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. *There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy. *In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B. Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. *He has directed many international associations, such as the Canadian and American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of Biological Sciences.

In 1981, during the Seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God


Consequently, Professor Moore was asked the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Quran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty in accepting this.

During one conference, Professor Moore stated: “....Because the staging of human embryos is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah (what Muhammad *said, did, or approved of). *The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. *The intensive studies of the Quran and hadeeth (reliably transmitted reports by the Prophet Muhammad’s *companions of what he said, did, or approved of) in the last four years have revealed a system for classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D. *Although Aristotle, the founder of the science of embryology, realized that chick embryos developed in stages from his studies of hen’s eggs in the fourth century B.C., he did not give any details about these stages. *As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the staging and classification of human embryos until the twentieth century. *For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryo in the Quran cannot be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century. *The only reasonable conclusion is: these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad from God. *He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training.”

<a href=\'http://www.islam-guide.com/video/moore-1.ram\' target=\'_blank\'>watch his statment</a> <--- Vedio

This is only the Embryonic Development mircale in the Holy Quran.

about others i will post them later when i collect more info and try to get everything like this post

i didnt post any links for any sites about relegions just the vedio one i dont want to get any Admin/mod on me .

hope u read it all dont get bored

[Hostage]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...446&q=ufo&hl=en

[Eric]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...+all+evil&hl=en
learn something

[DragonFire]

wow this is getting pretty serious :lol:

[Arca_]

pikachu > all.

[camaz0tz]

Originally posted by TunaFishyMe
Religion is a faith. *We believe in it because we do. * *You all claim that believing in God is something men do because they are afraid or needs some sort of explanation for things "science" cant explain yet. *How is that different than assuming the clock and the sound are related? *It isnt. *Its all in the eyes of the beholder. *You believe what you want to believe.

no...i claim following religion is a bunch of bullshit that men do ebcause they are afraid and weak minded i have no problem with believing in god as i believe in a higher being...but i also believe he doesnt give 2 shits about us(ill explain below)...




thats my belief...god made earth universe etc...now hes just sitting back watchign it all unfold...we were given "earth"(with sand stuff ) and us(the ants) build and shape earth how we want(all the tunnels etc)...were provided with food(in the ants case its given to them daily weekly whatever...ive never had pet ants rofl) but in our case its provided through the trees/plants that grow on earth...all god does is sit back and watch to see how it unfolds...put urself in the kids perspective...would u care if the ants rebelled among themselves and killed themselves...yes in the sense that u lost ur observational tools but not really in the same sense as losing a family member or loved one

call it nieve call it stupid call it whatever u want...my beliefs thought up by me by myself no one can change them...


as i said im not against beliefs im against the religious organizations...the ones that start the wars, start the manipulation, start all the bad parts of belief....imagine if no one belonged to any religion and we all had our own views about it...ud get rid of a whole demographic of discrimination