If you macro you can and will be banned or punished

[SkyHunter]

I am very out of touch with what is the current gear and back when I played with any seriousness there was a lot of flexibility.

Because I am a sin, we have a big ego issue and we love our 1 v 1's. It goes to an early post of mine, where a single sin could rip through a party pretty easily. When I last geared up a sin, I basically went pretty oldschool with my items, because the stats at that point were so crazy that I was really happy with the black chitin shell look with classic dagger. It made me look weak enough for people to chase after me thinking I would be easy NP. But playing against a skilled party who have discipline is way harder.

My era of KO is firmly at the end of Blood right through to what I guess would be called the Killedby era. I played at times when they were the top clan as a member in different clans and while they got a lot of heat, they were always really respectful towards me when we were able to chat to each other.

I'm very aware that there is an ego issue with 1v1's (I used to sit in arena and just practice for hours), but it's still moronic because ping can be a determining factor rather than skill, so while they may hold some value to you personally, it holds no value outside of that is what I meant.

At the moment the current gear is just straight AP; if it increases your AP, you put it on, and then you'd want some defensive set to equip after you are done blowing your load (as a sin at least). It's really boring and silly, and I wish they would add some flavor to the game with items that you cannot trade and are bound on acquire, but oh well!

As far as a macro removing skill and confidence, I completely disagree there but that just comes down to personal opinion (referring to earlier post). At the end of the day it's just a small extra degree of complexity which in the long run is irrelevant. In most party situations, sins can get away without minoring and simply curing + utilizing their cooldowns correctly (this is assuming big party play like 8v8). If you're going to talk about 2v2 3v3 and other small parties, then I can see your argument there, however I think if EVERYONE has the ability to macro (let's be honest, literally everyone does basically), then it's an even playing field and simply gives the player more space to cool and interesting shit with the other existing tools they have by not worrying about minoring.

edit: rhymes brought up a good point, 1v1's atm on sin are ridiculous simply because of CP

[Rhymes]

I am very out of touch with what is the current gear and back when I played with any seriousness there was a lot of flexibility.

Because I am a sin, we have a big ego issue and we love our 1 v 1's. It goes to an early post of mine, where a single sin could rip through a party pretty easily. When I last geared up a sin, I basically went pretty oldschool with my items, because the stats at that point were so crazy that I was really happy with the black chitin shell look with classic dagger. It made me look weak enough for people to chase after me thinking I would be easy NP. But playing against a skilled party who have discipline is way harder.

My era of KO is firmly at the end of Blood right through to what I guess would be called the Killedby era. I played at times when they were the top clan as a member in different clans and while they got a lot of heat, they were always really respectful towards me when we were able to chat to each other.

1 v 1 on usko these days is literally all RNG unless you're doing a -70 but yeah that doesnt happen very often

[BaanNekTharious]

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[Felix]

@Skyhunter - You'll have to forgive me, but I don't know you as a player (this is not meant in any form to disrespect you, but it more shows how massively out of touch I am, with who the current players are.). So I was unaware of your class. Playing sin in a party situation is different like you rightly said, and I guess a heal macro for an "oh shit" moment gives a great flexibility.

I remember burning through around 15 cure pots per base to base run, with a bit of bowl action. With priests being a must have these days, I expect 15 cure pots would be burnt through in no time at all? I guess sin is a much more supportive role now than what I use to play as. Back when I was really tearing things up, Sins were the ones who were run into a party to split them, down the mage or priest, then the warriors and priests would then do mopup. But with Warriors being so dominate now, I guess they charge in and soak up any damage an exp party inflicts, while the others support him and mop up any easy target?

I've use macro in both WoW and in my current game of Final Fantasy 14, targeting macros that tanks use are so handy for marking targets in boss fights. It has to be said I stopped PvP after I left KO, because nothing has the pace or scale that KO offers. When I have returned to KO, I do really well once I have built up my char the way I like (my actual 83 Sin in USKO is geared and can be used, but is of a really old school build and I searched a long time to find a sin with a PD RB+6) but while my mindset remained in 2009, the game is just so massively different I find it difficult to enjoy. Also I am 38 now, so along with my spinal damage, it's really physically painful for me to sit at a desk and put the time in KO requires to be top tier.

@Rhymes , could you explain a bit more please, as I don't know what RNG means.


@BannNekTharious - I've got him on speed dial

[Baked]

Get yourself a minor macro or develop some carpel tunnel / play at a disadvantage to the rest of the macro users... Tough decision.

[SkyHunter]

@Skyhunter - You'll have to forgive me, but I don't know you as a player (this is not meant in any form to disrespect you, but it more shows how massively out of touch I am, with who the current players are.). So I was unaware of your class. Playing sin in a party situation is different like you rightly said, and I guess a heal macro for an "oh shit" moment gives a great flexibility.

I remember burning through around 15 cure pots per base to base run, with a bit of bowl action. With priests being a must have these days, I expect 15 cure pots would be burnt through in no time at all? I guess sin is a much more supportive role now than what I use to play as. Back when I was really tearing things up, Sins were the ones who were run into a party to split them, down the mage or priest, then the warriors and priests would then do mopup. But with Warriors being so dominate now, I guess they charge in and soak up any damage an exp party inflicts, while the others support him and mop up any easy target?

I've use macro in both WoW and in my current game of Final Fantasy 14, targeting macros that tanks use are so handy for marking targets in boss fights. It has to be said I stopped PvP after I left KO, because nothing has the pace or scale that KO offers. When I have returned to KO, I do really well once I have built up my char the way I like (my actual 83 Sin in USKO is geared and can be used, but is of a really old school build and I searched a long time to find a sin with a PD RB+6) but while my mindset remained in 2009, the game is just so massively different I find it difficult to enjoy. Also I am 38 now, so along with my spinal damage, it's really physically painful for me to sit at a desk and put the time in KO requires to be top tier.

@Rhymes , could you explain a bit more please, as I don't know what RNG means.


@BannNekTharious - I've got him on speed dial

15 cures is what you go through in 1 fight usually (they have this thing called VIP storage where you can access a separate inn from anywhere, most sins have this and have stacks of 40-50 cures that they pull out mid-fight), and running in to kill a mage or a priest is basically impossible (unless youre against a full mage party in which case you'll probably get 2 or 3) simply because of the new items (such as gabs adamant which procs a shield around you and makes you literally invincible for a few seconds) and the amount of DD most people have. Most parties nowadays are 5 warriors and 3 priests (2 duffer, 1 party cure, sometimes there's customization - such as a mage in place of one of those, sins don't really have a place in 8v8 if you genuinely want to win).

I've been enjoying WoW pvp as of late, however KO pvp was probably the most enjoyable to me from all games I've played (blade and soul, TERA, RIFT, GW2, you name it I've played it with the exception of BDO, Archeage and ESO).

As far as what Rhymes was talking about he's referring to Critical Point; more or less in sin 1v1's on USKO you both CP at the start, duration pot, drain (it will heal you for double since your damage will be doubled by CP) and then you just spam all your abilities and hope your abilities (and minors and pots) crit more than the other guys, and you win if the server randomly decides to give you more crits than the other guy. All he means by RNG is that the victor is decided by the server randomly generating a number for you (crit or not crit).

In 70- VS (you are not allowed to use any skills past Bloody Beast, so no beast hide, blinding, eskirma, etc) there's no RNG (no CP specifically) and it's an actual VS.

[l911l]

I was planning to discuss with either twostars or Aesteris further on this topic to learn more about it. Thank you for posting this. What did Aesteris mean though when he said that official does not have server-sided cooldowns? Is there a way to prove this ?

[SkyHunter]

I was planning to discuss with either twostars or Aesteris further on this topic to learn more about it. Thank you for posting this. What did Aesteris mean though when he said that official does not have server-sided cooldowns? Is there a way to prove this ?

I have no clue, you'd have to talk to him about it not me. If I had to guess, I'd say TBLs are proof since you're editing your own client files and the server just accepts it without any checks, but that's my best guess (IIRC I thought USKO claimed to fix TBL but I have no idea if it actually was a fix or not).

[Felix]

I was planning to discuss with either twostars or Aesteris further on this topic to learn more about it. Thank you for posting this. What did Aesteris mean though when he said that official does not have server-sided cooldowns? Is there a way to prove this ?

How knowledgeable are you with scripts and code, as it's pretty technical answer that someone like Deville could answer pretty easily (he was the person who taught me enough to pass the entrance exam for my degree in 2009, after the years I had spent with him as one of the admins on here).


You press the skill, the client telles the server, the server then confirms it's received the command and then tells the relevant clients that a skill has been done (time stamp), there will be a lot of AND/OR variables to weather the skill hits, if it hits, a confirmation happens, your client is told, then the cooldown happens. The server relies on the client preventing you from using a skill during cooldown, which is a timer, even though the animation of the cooldown "in theory" could go quicker with REALLY high fps, a set amount of time (CPU cycles) has to happen and once that has happened, the server is told and you can then use the skill on confirmation.

Because there is so much info being pinged back and forth between the server and clients, latency aka a fast connection is better than a totally baller PC. When you think about the amount of information going back and forth between the server and the clients, it just shows how easily it is to fuck something up when you're patching a game.

My coding and scripts skills are VERY basic degree level at the best, but this is basically what happens with any online game. Having too much being allowed on the users client leads to exploits and cheats, which is why so much has to depend on the server client and the ability of the server.


KO is a REALLY old game, using late 90's coding as it's base, which has been patched and added to for over 18 years. One of the reasons why KO is the way it is, is because they are limited to (I think it's all 32bit stuff, but I think back then 64bit server CPU's were around) and a point where the stats of a char would be so high they would crash the game. This is why it's so fucking hard to run a private KO server and VERY expensive in the long run. This strain was one reason why me and Dev's had a bad falling out over things, the fact he still talks to me after the shit I landed him in, just shows how much character he has. (and how young and arrogant I was in my 20's)

[l911l]

I have no clue, you'd have to talk to him about it not me. If I had to guess, I'd say TBLs are proof since you're editing your own client files and the server just accepts it without any checks, but that's my best guess (IIRC I thought USKO claimed to fix TBL but I have no idea if it actually was a fix or not).

Okay, Thanks.

How knowledgeable are you with scripts and code, as it's pretty technical answer that someone like Deville could answer pretty easily (he was the person who taught me enough to pass the entrance exam for my degree in 2009, after the years I had spent with him as one of the admins on here).


You press the skill, the client telles the server, the server then confirms it's received the command and then tells the relevant clients that a skill has been done (time stamp), there will be a lot of AND/OR variables to weather the skill hits, if it hits, a confirmation happens, your client is told, then the cooldown happens. The server relies on the client preventing you from using a skill during cooldown, which is a timer, even though the animation of the cooldown "in theory" could go quicker with REALLY high fps, a set amount of time (CPU cycles) has to happen and once that has happened, the server is told and you can then use the skill on confirmation.

Because there is so much info being pinged back and forth between the server and clients, latency aka a fast connection is better than a totally baller PC. When you think about the amount of information going back and forth between the server and the clients, it just shows how easily it is to fuck something up when you're patching a game.

My coding and scripts skills are VERY basic degree level at the best, but this is basically what happens with any online game. Having too much being allowed on the users client leads to exploits and cheats, which is why so much has to depend on the server client and the ability of the server.


KO is a REALLY old game, using late 90's coding as it's base, which has been patched and added to for over 18 years. One of the reasons why KO is the way it is, is because they are limited to (I think it's all 32bit stuff, but I think back then 64bit server CPU's were around) and a point where the stats of a char would be so high they would crash the game. This is why it's so fucking hard to run a private KO server and VERY expensive in the long run. This strain was one reason why me and Dev's had a bad falling out over things, the fact he still talks to me after the shit I landed him in, just shows how much character he has. (and how young and arrogant I was in my 20's)

I do not possess as much knowledge as you pertaining to scripts and code. Thank you for sharing this. By chance, would you know who coded the original files from koreanko to usko ?

[Felix]

You mean the language translation?

Mgame and K2 were involved for the US release, but I know MYKO had a lot of English in it. I didn't get involved with KO until 2003 and I know K2 had some say in how the game was done for their own version.

My guess is Mgames did all of the grunt work with the 3 main regional variations of KO and as the license holder for any English release, K2 were able to adjust and adapt the game to suit their own markets.

Back in the really early days when Breath and Piana/El Morad were two different layouts, there were some really, really big differences between JPKO , MYKO and USKO.

Deville was a GM back then and in those days they had way more access and power than current GM's. I could call Morax or one of the other old GM's up that I'm friends with, but Deville would probably know more about the core of KO than anyone else outside of Mgames themself.

It was all such a really long time ago, so anyone on this side of the community with the knowledge will not have been active for well over a decade at the very minimum.

[l911l]

You mean the language translation?

Mgame and K2 were involved for the US release, but I know MYKO had a lot of English in it. I didn't get involved with KO until 2003 and I know K2 had some say in how the game was done for their own version.

My guess is Mgames did all of the grunt work with the 3 main regional variations of KO and as the license holder for any English release, K2 were able to adjust and adapt the game to suit their own markets.

Back in the really early days when Breath and Piana/El Morad were two different layouts, there were some really, really big differences between JPKO , MYKO and USKO.

Deville was a GM back then and in those days they had way more access and power than current GM's. I could call Morax or one of the other old GM's up that I'm friends with, but Deville would probably know more about the core of KO than anyone else outside of Mgames themself.

It was all such a really long time ago, so anyone on this side of the community with the knowledge will not have been active for well over a decade at the very minimum.

Thanks for sharing, Felix. Throughout this entire thread, I did learn quite a lot .

[ImmortalOne]

I was planning to discuss with either twostars or Aesteris further on this topic to learn more about it. Thank you for posting this. What did Aesteris mean though when he said that official does not have server-sided cooldowns? Is there a way to prove this ?

Many private servers have fps cap same as apex and usko not

[SheldonCooper]

A macro in a 1 v 1, that would be very powerful. In a 8 v 8 situation, it's more about teamwork and skill.

I think for a Sin, a macro would not help you win against someone who is really comfortable at minor+hp pot healing, as you can really adjust the healing rate to counteract the damage being done.

The biggest get out of jail card in the current version of the game, is the HP pool. You can fuck up and still come out on top as long as you can manage your MP properly and have enough pots.


Do I honestly think macro has a place in a game such as KO? No, in my eyes it's no longer about your ability to play your char totally with "skill" and confidence.

The one thing I have loved about KO, which compared to other MMO's is there is no META/Cookie Cutter build to each class. You have so many variations to what items, armour and weapons that there is never a build that will 100% win regardless of who plays it. (Well unless you've played on some of the special event chars with all stats maxed out and the GM wep that can hit 10,000 times per skill hit )

Actually there's a build for every class known to be the best at least regarding 1 v 1s. Warrior generallly going with best baal weapon as highest grade possible and krowaz sets. and rogues going with raum and moonlight jamadars, or even khanjars and moonlights. everyone toping that with highest grade krowaz sets and that's about it. And yeah macro matters aswell it does make a huge different and no it doesn't mean you gonna over power an macro minorer with a hp pot as counter damage reaction. because a good sin will do that anyway toping it with perfect macro minoring in fights.

But if you are reffering as changing different gears for team fights in that case you are right. There is a lot of variety you can use and mix and match different weapons against a different opponents most notably observing support mages and priests what kind of shileds they are using aswell.

[twostars]

I was planning to discuss with either twostars or Aesteris further on this topic to learn more about it. Thank you for posting this. What did Aesteris mean though when he said that official does not have server-sided cooldowns? Is there a way to prove this ?

That's not quite accurate. Official does enforce server-side cooldowns, however they're only really practical for skills with longer CDs. For skills like minor heal where the CD is sub 1s, it's virtually nonexistent, so they have a small generic CD enforced instead to buffer them (hence the silent fails every now and then you'll see officially).

Officially it doesn't verify cast times though, which might be what he was thinking of (the KO client is actually pretty stupid about even reasonably accurate timing; things skew a lot [so skills randomly slow down or speed up], so this is more difficult than it should be...).